• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Marvin Pickups

I came across this video on YouTube and it intrigued me:



So, I went to the website and found this, which intrigued me even more:

Invalid Link Removed

I just ordered a Realist Lifeline for my Kolstein bass, but being as I used a B-Band Statement for a while this really has piqued my interest. Does anyone know anything about these? I can't find any info out on them whatsoever.
 
I didn't know these pickups, but it seems they are made from a simple piezo disk, probably cut on two sides, soldered to a cable and put in liquid synthetics.
My experience with piezo disk is, that they are more sensitive to bending than pressure, so the output is probably low. They also need a high impedance buffer, significantly higher than 1 MegOhms.
And connecting more than one in parallel degraded the sound, the only way to avoid this is putting an impedance buffer for every single piezo and connecting the outputs of the buffers together (after the output resistor) feeding the amp with it.
I haven't tried a serial connection, but this would probably need an even higher input impedance.
 
I didn't know these pickups, but it seems they are made from a simple piezo disk, probably cut on two sides, soldered to a cable and put in liquid synthetics.
My experience with piezo disk is, that they are more sensitive to bending than pressure, so the output is probably low. They also need a high impedance buffer, significantly higher than 1 MegOhms.
And connecting more than one in parallel degraded the sound, the only way to avoid this is putting an impedance buffer for every single piezo and connecting the outputs of the buffers together (after the output resistor) feeding the amp with it.
I haven't tried a serial connection, but this would probably need an even higher input impedance.
Do you know for sure this is the design?
 
Do you know for sure this is the design?
How can I be completely sure if I haven't disassembled one of their pickups?
But what else could be in there as flat as the pickup is?

The Underwood/Shadow SH-950/951 has a piezo crystal about 2 mm thick sandwiched between a bent piece of brass. That's definitely not what could be in there. The Fishman BP-100 is made from piezo disks as well.
Piezo crystals are either more sensitive to bending or to pressure, depending on the orientation they were cut out of the bigger piezo crystal material.
Since piezo disks are usually made for buzzing applications, they will bend to move more air than if they would have cut for pressure sensitivity. The brass side would help bending, since it doesn't expand over length, but the thin piezo crystal does, resulting in a bending of the disk.

Theoretically a piezo foil could be in there, but they are either rectangular or a special custom order which is much more expensive than the stock shapes. But then the pickup could be bend easily, since there is no metal disk inside, only two sheets of thin synthetics. And even these are more sensitive to bending than pressure and they need an even higher input impedance (up to 22 MegOhms) for optimum load.

There are only two common other shapes of piezos I know, piezo cable (soft piezo electrical dielectric in a coaxial cable) and cylindrical rods of piezo crystal (like used in fire lighters), which couldn't have been used here for obvious reasons.

BTW, the contacts for a piezo disk are usually made at the peripheral, one to the brass disk and one to the silver coated top. Since the connection to the silver coated top is very sensitive to getting off the piezo crystal, this part is often put in epoxy to enlarge the area of contact and avoid too much mechanical stress. Now look at the shape of the pickups ...
 
Last edited:
How can I be completely sure if I haven't disassembled one of their pickups?
But what else could be in there as flat as the pickup is?

The Underwood/Shadow SH-950/951 has a piezo crystal about 2 mm thick sandwiched between a bent piece of brass. That's definitely not what could be in there. The Fishman BP-100 is made from piezo disks as well.
Piezo crystals are either more sensitive to bending or to pressure, depending on the orientation they were cut out of the bigger piezo crystal material.
Since piezo disks are usually made for buzzing applications, they will bend to move more air than if they would have cut for pressure sensitivity. The brass side would help bending, since it doesn't expand over length, but the thin piezo crystal does, resulting in a bending of the disk.

Theoretically a piezo foil could be in there, but they are either rectangular or a special custom order which is much more expensive than the stock shapes. But then the pickup could be bend easily, since there is no metal disk inside, only two sheets of thin synthetics. And even these are more sensitive to bending than pressure and they need an even higher input impedance (up to 22 MegOhms) for optimum load.

There are only two common other shapes of piezos I know, piezo cable (soft piezo electrical dielectric in a coaxial cable) and cylindrical rods of piezo crystal (like used in fire lighters), which couldn't have been used here for obvious reasons.

BTW, the contacts for a piezo disk are usually made at the peripheral, one to the brass disk and one to the silver coated top. Since the connection to the silver coated top is very sensitive to getting off the piezo crystal, this part is often put in epoxy to enlarge the area of contact and avoid too much mechanical stress. Now look at the shape of the pickups ...
It might be electret film not piezos....more like the B-Band.
 
Possible, but unlikely for that price. I assume they would be more expensive in this case. And why the curved shape at the cable side and opposite. This looks more like a disk with two cut sides.

It is possible to cut a piezo disk with a scissor, but one side gets damaged (broken crystal), so a disk can be cut to shape. And since the brass disk is larger in diameter than the piezo disk, the brass that is not covered by the piezo and is not used to solder the shield of the cable onto can be cut.