Double Bass Marvin tailpiece failure

[csrund]

Anyone with a Marvin ever experience this?

No warning, then suddenly... ka-POW!

I think I'll ask if they'll replace it. The worst they can say is hell, no.

 

[csrund]

Good news: Kevin Marvin replied via email and is replacing the tailpiece. According to Kevin, this older model was made with hardened brass detente rings; he has since switched to non-hardened brass, which is more resilient. Thanks, Kevin!

 

[Dan Conwell]

My Marvin failed in the same manner. I emailed the company and didn't receive a reply, so I went back to a standard tailpiece. Marvin has a very good reputation for service, so I'm guessing I used an out of date email address.

 

[robobass]

There is so little metal on the sides of the hole that I'm surprised it doesn't break more often. Changing metal might help, but I think he should be using thicker-walled tubing or at least a taller ring for the E. I met him once and he described the difficulty of making the rings small enough that they don't touch the adjacent wires, but big enough to accommodate the lower strings, especially gut. So it is a design challenge.

 

[turf3]

As a mechanical engineer, I would recommend:

1) Thicker walls on the tubing.
2) Longer length of the tubing on the top side where the hole for the string is.
3) Replace brass with stainless steel.

Brass is well known for a large coarse grain structure, which is why the little tiny brass screws will sometimes just pop in two at very low torque. Stainless is very tough and unlikely to fail in this way.

If he wants to use standard tubes, rather than machining the tube from solid, there are only a finite number of dimensional options for wall thickness, ID, and OD.

 

[robobass]

As a mechanical engineer, I would recommend:

1) Thicker walls on the tubing.
2) Longer length of the tubing on the top side where the hole for the string is.
3) Replace brass with stainless steel.

Brass is well known for a large coarse grain structure, which is why the little tiny brass screws will sometimes just pop in two at very low torque. Stainless is very tough and unlikely to fail in this way.

If he wants to use standard tubes, rather than machining the tube from solid, there are only a finite number of dimensional options for wall thickness, ID, and OD.

+1. Ti might also be worth a look. In either case the assembly would be lighter than with brass, and I assume that would be a plus.

 

[kcmarvin]

Thank you everyone for your support and interest in the cable tailpiece. The tailpieces do have a lifetime warranty and I will replace any that break. To date, the only breakages I have had are some early cable crimp issues and those made with hardened brass rings. These rings were stronger on initial testing but I found they failed over time due to fatigue.
I greatly respect the early adopters of the tailpiece. It takes a lot of courage to trust your instrument and ability to play it to thin stainless steel cables and brass rings. Most players have not had any problems with the tailpiece and those that have provided great information that has led to improvements.
I use brass for the rings for multiple reasons. Brass is easier to work, it is strong (except the hardened), it works well acoustically, and it is a softer metal than the strings it holds so it will not damage the strings. I have tested aluminum, carbon steel and stainless steel and have found brass as the preferred material (for now). I am always open to suggestions.
Dan, I searched my email for your broken tailpiece message but did not find it. I did find the email with your original order placed in 2008. (I don't delete email) Please forward your current address and I will send a replacement. You can send me messages from my website Marvin Cable Tailpieces - Welcome
Kevin Marvin

 

[csrund]

FWIW, I had to temporarily switch back to the old ebony tailpiece to get through the current concert cycle, and it really underscored the difference that the cable tailpiece makes: it mellows the feel of the strings and gives the bass a warmer sound, at least on my instrument. It also makes a noticeable difference in bow response on the A string, and it makes the instrument a bit lighter.

 

[paul]

@kcmarvin good to hear of the design improvements you've made. I had one of the earliest models and it went BANG when my luthier was tuning up the strings - thankfully he didn't get hurt!

I'm going to give one of these another try. My bass is one that I believe would benefit greatly from the decreased mass.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

My Marvin also failed a few weeks ago after a few years of use and Kevin replaced it right away.