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Double Bass Marvin Wire Tailpiece

#81
First impressions: I like it. The bass sounds richer. No, I don't think it got brighter. I don't think it's got all that much louder esp on the G and D - just that the strings are allowed to ring out so it's a little punchier. My E and A vibrate alot more freely now so they might be a little louder. Feelwise, I wouldn't say it's less tension than the MPM TP I had on before, but it certainly has a different springiness to it. Arco seems a little easier.

During the install, I whipped out the Dremel knock off that I have and rounded the edges for the string holes a little bit. There was a small burr or two and removed that as well.

As for the buffer, I just didn't think it mattered that much so I did my own design using the strips that are supposed to be for zigzags.

Now I'm not sure how much the new cable TP affected my sound. On the MPM TP I had felt washers for all my strings (I felt my bass was bright so I wanted to dampen) and a big rubber one on the E. I did not install any of those washers on the Marvin TP... maybe those washers affected my sound more. I don't know. All I know now is that my E and A ring a little bigger... the E is more lively and that I actually got just a touch more growl from those two strings.

One more thing: I think this TP changes the whole ballgame with mixing strings from various sets. I would think the cables would allow each string to breathe more individually, so maybe it might be more effective when mixing. And oh yeah, the strings feel a ton more consistent going up the registers. Stuff in thumb position on the E & A sound alot better and less nasal.

I did record the bass, pizz only, before the install. I'll wait a week and record again once things have settled in.

One tip I found: If the string holders are rattling together, just yank up on the string and twist it til the rings no longer hit eachother.
 
#82
More observations after a few days.... ok maybe I was wrong. I think the bass is slightly louder. The sound difference won't be that drastic. I think it's settling it. Like I said before, I dont' think there's a drop in string tension compared to the MPM TPs - which makes sense since both have staggered string holes. Tthe string just vibrates differently - and you definitely feel it like crazy under your fingers.

Overall, I think for my bass it was just a slight gain on attack, volume, and a different string feel.
 
#84
Pentabass said:
What is your experience - do you really need the self adhesive tailpiece buffer?

What difference do you hear in the sound once you apply that piece of felt? :confused:
Click to expand...

I don't think its that much of a difference, its more designed to prevent the cables and harnesses from hitting against each other. It doesnt change the mass that much and and that is the main concept of the tailpiece, reduce mass to increase vibrations.
 
#85
Pentabass said:
What is your experience - do you really need the self adhesive tailpiece buffer?

What difference do you hear in the sound once you apply that piece of felt? :confused:
Click to expand...

The primary purpose of the cable tailpiece is to eliminate the impact of the tailpiece. The buffer eliminates sympathetic vibrations. The result is fewer wolf tones and more balanced sound across pitches. Other components of the design reduce these vibrations as well but the buffer eliminates what is left.

Though you may not hear direct sound with the buffer removed, the sound of the vibrations north of the bridge will be balanced better across the range of the instrument.

I appreciate the input from this thread as I have adjusted the tailpiece build and design based on this input. For example, the reintroduction of the zig-zag buffer and changes to debur and improve the rings.

Sincerely,

Kevin Marvin
 
#86
kcmarvin said:
I appreciate the input from this thread as I have adjusted the tailpiece build and design based on this input. For example, the reintroduction of the zig-zag buffer and changes to debur and improve the rings.

Sincerely,

Kevin Marvin
Click to expand...

Dear Mr. Marvin,

Thank you for your very exciting product, and thank you for using the feedback from this forum.

Have you thought, however, about the impact that you will have in many homes: lots of discarded tailpieces lying around! What to do with these pieces of art, sometimes even heirlooms??

Sure, there is enough ebony now available for many, many new nuts and saddles, but you only need so many, and then there is still tailpiece left...

ok, here is another suggestion for the old wooden soundthieves:
Saladspoons. Yes. Let there be saladspoons ! (picture to follow)

What are you doing with your old tailpiece??
 
#87
i've really adapted to this new tailpiece and really dig the changes. the increased ease in displacing the strings (not lower tension) allows me to use a stark E and to raise the action a bit. It feels like a fine tune adjustment for pizz but then you get used to it and realize it is both a fine tune and a global difference. The bass resonates better which allows you to keep track of the tolerances better which means you can get the same depth of sound without pulling as hard. a change you can feel and hear and both for the better. bravo K.
 
#88
"The most notable change is increased brightness tonally and a new wolf tone on the open A string (that seems to have moved from the Ab WT the bass had previously). I tamed the new wt with a towel between the TP and the top of the bass. I'll probably switch back to my standard TP as I think I prefer the darker sound."

Since I wrote this a few weeks ago in another thread, I decided to try something else to see if the wolf tones could be tamed. I exchanged a heavier steel endpin for the short wood "filler" pin that was in the socket (I use the Laborie pin). The open A WT is tamed quite a bit more with the heavy pin. I still have a serious WT on the high A on the A string.
 
#89
ehochberg said:
"The most notable change is increased brightness tonally and a new wolf tone on the open A string (that seems to have moved from the Ab WT the bass had previously). I tamed the new wt with a towel between the TP and the top of the bass. I'll probably switch back to my standard TP as I think I prefer the darker sound."

Since I wrote this a few weeks ago in another thread, I decided to try something else to see if the wolf tones could be tamed. I exchanged a heavier steel endpin for the short wood "filler" pin that was in the socket (I use the Laborie pin). The open A WT is tamed quite a bit more with the heavy pin. I still have a serious WT on the high A on the A string.
Click to expand...

I have that wolftone too, it seems to be pretty common on all basses with carved tops(everything but lamys). My bass has a lot of weird resonance due to its young age, but the tailpiece did a lot to calm, and in some situations resolve the wolftone issues.
 
#90
Thoughtful post, Eric, about the steel endpin. I switched back from my carbon fiber rod to a steel endpin a couple of months ago.

Also cobbed my bow quiver onto the thing at some point, I'm not exactly sure when. All to say that both the steel endpin and the quiver helped, somehow; the sound is still clear but a little more "focused."

Interestingly, doing some of the things I thought twice about doing when using wood tailpieces (attaching quivers, steel endpins, etc.) actually seem to mellow the Marvin TP a bit, without eliminating the ease of play and even response.
 
#91
Eric Swanson said:
Interestingly, doing some of the things I thought twice about doing when using wood tailpieces (attaching quivers, steel endpins, etc.) actually seem to mellow the Marvin TP a bit, without eliminating the ease of play and even response.
Click to expand...

I actually leaned the tailpiece into a coffee table while playing to damp it, and that seemed to help too. Maybe these are all indications of the need for a heavier tailpiece, at least on my bass.
 
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#94
Hi guys
I am considering one of these for my Hybrid La Scala. It is strung with a spiro stark E and mittel A and belcantos on D and G.
The Pizz sound is really good now. However the Bowed Stark while quite loud is more string sound than Bass. I was hoping that the change of tailpiece would allow the bass to vibrate more. At the moment I am doing more bowing than Pizz. The Bow response is as important to me as the Pizz. I have read some conflicting reports re the bowing response. Any opinions.
 
#96
Pros: Arco was MUCH more responsive - strings were more supple. Looks cool.

Cons: A bit too bright for my taste on my bass (Christopher Hybrid fiver). Also, putting thick plain guts on the loops was impossible for me. I broke one string twice. I also couldn't get the quiver to stop swinging back and forth. Mounting the pickup jack on the quiver was not cool, with the wire just sort of dangling around. Besides - after mounting all that crap on the Tailpiece, I think I was kind of defeating much of its intended purpose.

It ended up causing more problems for me than not, and I've since removed it.
 
#99
yes, I used to have a wolf on my Bb on the D string, now it seems to be a little lower..

Also, for whatever reasons, during the summer my bass sounded brighter after I put the Marvin on, in a good way. In the cold weather it's REALLY bright, not in a good way. If the sound changes back to what it was, I might try a darker set of strings like Dominants or Evahs next winter.
 
#100
Anyone figured out how to use flexocor strings with their big flat 'ball' end in the Marvin tailpiece' smaller rings? (Didn't want to start a new thread and thought this fit here.) I just put on a flexocore low b with flexocor deluxe on order and am a little afraid that I might have to give up my beloved Marvin (see other my other raves posted here.) The unseated ball is sticking out at a 30 degree angle and occasionally rattling with the next ring/wire. Easy enough to pad, but do I need to get out my Dremel tool? If I do, what's the chance something will snap if I shape the 'ball' like an obligato or Evah bullet shape?
I'm ordering a dov Schmidt harp tailpiece just in case.
Btw, have an email out to Kevin.
 
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