Do you guys know of any light weight quivers that would work with this tailpiece? I don't want something that will be too heavy or affect the tailpieces sound.
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Double Bass Marvin Wire Tailpiece
- Thread starter Eli_Upright12
- Start date
I've been using an old one I bought from Lemur many years ago ( they were still in Bloomington then ) and it works great.
It is quite light and is made of soft leather.
Its somewhat lighter than the hard leather ones you see around but I don't know if its still available these days.
At the upper end I've attached it to the ring the string goes through and it hasn't caused any problems.
It is quite light and is made of soft leather.
Its somewhat lighter than the hard leather ones you see around but I don't know if its still available these days.
At the upper end I've attached it to the ring the string goes through and it hasn't caused any problems.
My Marvin tailpiece just arrived about two hours ago. The first thing that jumped out at me was the sustain. The notes ring for way longer than before, also the sound seems to be brighter which really helps my dark sounding upton. I cant wait to see what other effects it has in the future! I'll leave another up date in a month or two. But at the moment i am very pleased with the effects.
funny, I didn't find it increased the brightness on my Bass.
As far as tonal balance goes, the tailpiece gave the effect of taming the midrange somewhat giving the Bass more smoothness and depth.
It's a fairly new instrument ( 4 yrs) and this tailpiece seemed to loosen it up and give it a more open sound as well as more sustain and volume.
As far as tonal balance goes, the tailpiece gave the effect of taming the midrange somewhat giving the Bass more smoothness and depth.
It's a fairly new instrument ( 4 yrs) and this tailpiece seemed to loosen it up and give it a more open sound as well as more sustain and volume.
It will mainly make a bright instrument brighter, My bass didn't seem to change the tone all that much except that the upper register is brighter and more punchy.
What i did for my quiver was i got some vel-cro and put two little squares on my bass and attached my quiver to it. I tied it on loosely onto the top of my tailpiece for support and it works very well!
I have had my Marvin tailpiece on for a couple of days. This has easily been the single most dramatic improvement I have made on my instrument, and it only took $80 and an hour of installation time.
My bass’ former muddiness and woftones are all gone. Everything is clearer, more even, more responsive, and more "transparent" sounding. No dramatic increase in "brightness" but certainly a big increase in lucidity.
The strings feel more flexible on both hands, but not at all floppy. Easier to finger up near the nut. Nice feel on the right hand when playing pizz.
Got it one business day after my online order, along with a nice, personal email from Kevin Marvin telling me when to expect the product. The whole thing arrives in a small, flat envelope and weighs next to nothing. It arrives looking like a little letter!
One thing I hadn't considered is the effect on the strings of moving the contact points with the bridge and the nut. So now, a couple of my strings have little dents at the former contact points. Doesn’t seem to have hurt the Belcantos’ action, though. While the tailpiece swap is reversible (one can always replace the old tailpiece, if desired), the strings will bear witness to the relatively different bridge/nut locations (since the strings' attachment points vary with the type of tailpiece). For this reason, installation may warrant replacement for some of the more delicate string brands.
This thing works brilliantly. My bass is much more fun to play. Doesn’t feel like a fight any more…the bass is much more responsive. So refreshing to have something that works as well as advertised…
My bass’ former muddiness and woftones are all gone. Everything is clearer, more even, more responsive, and more "transparent" sounding. No dramatic increase in "brightness" but certainly a big increase in lucidity.
The strings feel more flexible on both hands, but not at all floppy. Easier to finger up near the nut. Nice feel on the right hand when playing pizz.
Got it one business day after my online order, along with a nice, personal email from Kevin Marvin telling me when to expect the product. The whole thing arrives in a small, flat envelope and weighs next to nothing. It arrives looking like a little letter!
One thing I hadn't considered is the effect on the strings of moving the contact points with the bridge and the nut. So now, a couple of my strings have little dents at the former contact points. Doesn’t seem to have hurt the Belcantos’ action, though. While the tailpiece swap is reversible (one can always replace the old tailpiece, if desired), the strings will bear witness to the relatively different bridge/nut locations (since the strings' attachment points vary with the type of tailpiece). For this reason, installation may warrant replacement for some of the more delicate string brands.
This thing works brilliantly. My bass is much more fun to play. Doesn’t feel like a fight any more…the bass is much more responsive. So refreshing to have something that works as well as advertised…
Its nice to see that everyone is having the same positive experience that I had. It seems that so far everyone thinks its a great invention.
I've recently begun perusing "The Setup and Repair of the Double Bass for Optimun Sound" by Chuck Treger. In the chapter on 'Mode Matching' he says, "This is the Fourth Genie of Sound and Playability, and it is the Master Genie as it does the most to help the sound and playability of the bass, and also the evenness if volume between notes".
Basically, mode matching has to do with tuning the fingerboard/neck and the tailpiece with the bass body using tap tones and singing or electronically producing a tone into the body. (Hopefully some of you more familiar with this will correct or add to this description).
As to the subject of this thread, Treger places a lot of importance on obtaining the correct tailpiece weight and wire length. Here is a short quote from the section "For the Pizz Player": "With any tailpiece Mode Matching it is best to start with the lightest possible tailpiece because changing the length and/or placement of the tailpiece wires across the saddle is much more effective in altering the note of the tailpiece than the weight of the tailpiece".
Is it possible that by doing away with the tailpiece entirely, as Marvin has done, the mode conflicts inherent in standard (and untuned) tailpieces are simply either eliminated or made insignificant?
Disclaimer: I am not a luthier, nor have I any expertise in this subject. I simply bought the book in order to gain some basic understanding of the construction and set-up of the bass. I thought this might be relevant to the discussion.
Cheers
Dave Little
Basically, mode matching has to do with tuning the fingerboard/neck and the tailpiece with the bass body using tap tones and singing or electronically producing a tone into the body. (Hopefully some of you more familiar with this will correct or add to this description).
As to the subject of this thread, Treger places a lot of importance on obtaining the correct tailpiece weight and wire length. Here is a short quote from the section "For the Pizz Player": "With any tailpiece Mode Matching it is best to start with the lightest possible tailpiece because changing the length and/or placement of the tailpiece wires across the saddle is much more effective in altering the note of the tailpiece than the weight of the tailpiece".
Is it possible that by doing away with the tailpiece entirely, as Marvin has done, the mode conflicts inherent in standard (and untuned) tailpieces are simply either eliminated or made insignificant?
Disclaimer: I am not a luthier, nor have I any expertise in this subject. I simply bought the book in order to gain some basic understanding of the construction and set-up of the bass. I thought this might be relevant to the discussion.
Cheers
Dave Little
I have read Traeger's book, too, as well as Bob Branstetter's well-written paper on AO-BO matching.
I understand that some luthiers feel that mode matching is relatively unimportant (at best) while others feel that it is a logical (and essential) way to address conjoined vibrating bodies. While I have read several heated discussions here, I lack the knowledge or desire to comment on this issue.
This small, anecdotal trial appeared to be worth a shot, since the experiment was both relatively reversible and inexpensive. For my modest bass, it seemed like a reasonable thing; to try to virtually eliminate one of the vibrating (or dampening) bodies (or at least significantly reduce and disperse the mass).
Whatever the physics at work, this thing is an improvement, on my bass. It seems that by using the Marvin tailpiece I have eliminated one of the vibratory trouble spots.
The other thing the design does is narrow the axis around which the tailpiece/strings/instrument body twists as it vibrates; there is only the single braided cable passing over the saddle and the whole assembly is about 2" (or so wide).
I was careful not to change anything else when I swapped out the tailpieces. Same strings, same rosin, same bow, same soundpost setting, same temperature, same humidity levels. I wanted to see what the tailpiece would do on its own.
I understand that some luthiers feel that mode matching is relatively unimportant (at best) while others feel that it is a logical (and essential) way to address conjoined vibrating bodies. While I have read several heated discussions here, I lack the knowledge or desire to comment on this issue.
This small, anecdotal trial appeared to be worth a shot, since the experiment was both relatively reversible and inexpensive. For my modest bass, it seemed like a reasonable thing; to try to virtually eliminate one of the vibrating (or dampening) bodies (or at least significantly reduce and disperse the mass).
Whatever the physics at work, this thing is an improvement, on my bass. It seems that by using the Marvin tailpiece I have eliminated one of the vibratory trouble spots.
The other thing the design does is narrow the axis around which the tailpiece/strings/instrument body twists as it vibrates; there is only the single braided cable passing over the saddle and the whole assembly is about 2" (or so wide).
I was careful not to change anything else when I swapped out the tailpieces. Same strings, same rosin, same bow, same soundpost setting, same temperature, same humidity levels. I wanted to see what the tailpiece would do on its own.
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
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- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
I installed a Marvin tailpiece on my bass today. The first snag I hit was installing the Velvet Animas and Garbos. I am not sure if anyone else done this before or whether I am the first but the brass strings on the Marvin tailpiece seem to be clearly designed for strings with ball ends. The Velvet strings have fabric ends with loops. Now you could install the Velvets around the brass rings as is but I wasn't going to dare try it because the edges of the rings are not rounded. In fact while I wouldn't say they are sharp, they are not far from it. I could just see the edges cutting into the fabric and eventually BANG. First I tried filing the edges but I realised that it was going to take me a very long time to get them all rounded and smooth. I then tried wrapping small strips of duct tape around them and that was nothing but a mess. I finally decided on using some leather. Leather does seem to be very useful when it comes to basses. I have leather bumpers and leather under my extension gates not to mention a leather bib. I had to search through the house but finally came up with a small carrying case that had a strap that I could cut up into small strips and I used that between the string ends. You can see pics here:
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You'll see that I did not loop the string through the small hole in each brass ring but around the width of the entire ring. That way the leather is between the fabric of the string and the brass ring at all times.
The other problem I had was that the brass rings and the cables would sometimes hit one another especially if I pizz'ed hard. Luthier, Don Gorman, had warned me about this but I figured that the bridge on my bass is pretty big and the spacing is reasonably wide so I hadn't expected this to be a problem. I ended up (as you will see in the photos), weaving the supplied piece of foam rubber between the various metal bits. Problem solved.
The final step was repositioning my Full Circle jack which I had previously velcro'd behind the tailpiece. Now it's behind the bow quiver.
The most noticeable differences in sound are that it is clearer and more consistent across the strings. The strings also speak more quickly and under the fingers and with the bow and when pizz'ing, the strings feel more elastic. Overall, I think it's a good improvement and I'm sure the bass also needs a bit of time to adjust to this change.
I do think something else needs to be done to better support the installation of the Velvets. Perhaps the rings should come pre-wrapped with a small leather strip at the top of the ring and it could be rotated to reveal the small hole for those with ball end strings or rotate to the "top" of the ring so that Velvet strings can sit on it.
Invalid Link Removed
You'll see that I did not loop the string through the small hole in each brass ring but around the width of the entire ring. That way the leather is between the fabric of the string and the brass ring at all times.
The other problem I had was that the brass rings and the cables would sometimes hit one another especially if I pizz'ed hard. Luthier, Don Gorman, had warned me about this but I figured that the bridge on my bass is pretty big and the spacing is reasonably wide so I hadn't expected this to be a problem. I ended up (as you will see in the photos), weaving the supplied piece of foam rubber between the various metal bits. Problem solved.
The final step was repositioning my Full Circle jack which I had previously velcro'd behind the tailpiece. Now it's behind the bow quiver.
The most noticeable differences in sound are that it is clearer and more consistent across the strings. The strings also speak more quickly and under the fingers and with the bow and when pizz'ing, the strings feel more elastic. Overall, I think it's a good improvement and I'm sure the bass also needs a bit of time to adjust to this change.
I do think something else needs to be done to better support the installation of the Velvets. Perhaps the rings should come pre-wrapped with a small leather strip at the top of the ring and it could be rotated to reveal the small hole for those with ball end strings or rotate to the "top" of the ring so that Velvet strings can sit on it.
I had the same problem with the brass rings hitting, I solved it by wrapping the ring that was hitting with some flexible padding for furniture feet and some tape. Also I believe you are supposed to use a special deburring devise for the holes regardless of the string type so that the edges of the hole do not damage or break your strings.
There's nothing in the instructions about any deburring being required. I would hope that if deburring of the small holes was required for normal strings, that the brass rings would come already prepared that way.
Adrian, thanks so much for the post...Don's putting a Marvin on my new bass when it's done in 3 weeks. I was wondering about gut strings and if they'd work well with the marvin. Thanks for the info!!
I'm ready to pull the trigger on this one, but ....
Does anyone have a comment on how the Marvin affects the amplified sound?
Does the bass become more prone to feedback?
Has anyone needed to have their soundpost adjusted due to the installation?
Thanks!!
Does anyone have a comment on how the Marvin affects the amplified sound?
Does the bass become more prone to feedback?
Has anyone needed to have their soundpost adjusted due to the installation?
Thanks!!
Turns out Kevin has a special model of the tailpiece that has rings for Velvet strings. Only problem is that I never knew such a thing existed! Rufus Reid is apparently using this special model. Kevin is a great guy and immediately offered to send me the Velvet-compatible model.
Well I played a three hour gig with a 17-piece band on Sunday and therefore used more amplification than I often would. At times we were pretty loud and I had to turn up more than I often would. I could not detect any difference in possible feedback. As far as the soundpost go, the one thing I will mention is that my G string was previously quite strong but with the tailpiece wire it is not as loud. This is not actually as bad as it sounds because the sound is actually now more consistent across the strings.
Thanks Adrian, exactly the situation I was looking for feedback (pun intended 
) on. I play mostly on the quiet side and as much as possible, unplugged. However, I do find myself in the cramped loud situation on a regular basis.
This thing sounds too good to be true, but by the comments I've read it lives up to it's reputation. I'm going to order one in a couple of days.
Any other thoughts/comments that I might not be aware of?
cheers
) on. I play mostly on the quiet side and as much as possible, unplugged. However, I do find myself in the cramped loud situation on a regular basis. This thing sounds too good to be true, but by the comments I've read it lives up to it's reputation. I'm going to order one in a couple of days.
Any other thoughts/comments that I might not be aware of?
cheers
