Matched expectations

[3Liter]

So often, I see a thread about a band going sideways because the expectations weren't aligned at the beginning...or haven't evolved the same for all members. The C19 has changed my band. We went from a jam thing that evolved to playing open mics and then we got some paying gigs. I have zero desire at the present to get back out there and I told the band as much. Most of the guys seem to be on board with this. One, I'm not sure about. So anyhow we're back to a basement jam thing at my house. Poker night with instruments. (We're not even weekend warriors, so there's that...)

I'm trying not to let the little stuff eat me up but got me thinking about what kind of expectations should be (or should have been) set at the onset of a project. There's many threads on this stuff, but I'm bored...and some of this is a little complainingish but oh well...and maybe this is a marker for me to come back to when this collapses and I move onto something else....

Skills: There's some room for mismatch, but folks should be on a similar level.
Music choice/breadth: Try and like the music the band is playing. Try and know some of it. If you're a complete fish out of water, turn to the station/youtube where to find this stuff. When they launch into a common song, it'd be nice if you know the "feel" of the song. If you don't know it, come back next week having listened to it and run through it a bit. I have learned of a whole lot of cool tunes and artists playing with others.
Note for Note: There's many a thread on this topic. But the point is, if you wanna be N4N and not everyone else does (or can) it's gonna frustrate you. I do high performance driving where people spent big money to shave .1 off their lap time. Others just want to drive fast and enjoy their cars. There's room for both in the same skill group - because it's a solo activity. Music is a team sport.
Money: If this is for money, better get that out there up front.
Social: Weed/booze/10 minute smoke breaks, etc. We don't do any of this, because we were focused before.
Communication/Critique: This I find the hardest. Some people in music don't speak in music terms....a shuffle, an eigth note, the IV chord, etc. Then how to give feedback politely...the drums are too busy, no riffs over the vocals, the phrasing is off, etc. How do you say this without coming off wrong? How is it received? Depends on the situation and the expectations. Whoever brings the song, should drive how they want it done or say like the recording and have the ability to explain what's going wrong.

Thoughts? What did I miss?

What have I missed?

 

[JohnMCA72]

So often, I see a thread about a band going sideways because the expectations weren't aligned at the beginning...or haven't evolved the same for all members. The C19 has changed my band. We went from a jam thing that evolved to playing open mics and then we got some paying gigs. I have zero desire at the present to get back out there and I told the band as much. Most of the guys seem to be on board with this. One, I'm not sure about. So anyhow we're back to a basement jam thing at my house. Poker night with instruments. (We're not even weekend warriors, so there's that...)

I'm trying not to let the little stuff eat me up but got me thinking about what kind of expectations should be (or should have been) set at the onset of a project. There's many threads on this stuff, but I'm bored...and some of this is a little complainingish but oh well...and maybe this is a marker for me to come back to when this collapses and I move onto something else....

Skills: There's some room for mismatch, but folks should be on a similar level.
Music choice/breadth: Try and like the music the band is playing. Try and know some of it. If you're a complete fish out of water, turn to the station/youtube where to find this stuff. When they launch into a common song, it'd be nice if you know the "feel" of the song. If you don't know it, come back next week having listened to it and run through it a bit. I have learned of a whole lot of cool tunes and artists playing with others.
Note for Note: There's many a thread on this topic. But the point is, if you wanna be N4N and not everyone else does (or can) it's gonna frustrate you. I do high performance driving where people spent big money to shave .1 off their lap time. Others just want to drive fast and enjoy their cars. There's room for both in the same skill group - because it's a solo activity. Music is a team sport.
Money: If this is for money, better get that out there up front.
Social: Weed/booze/10 minute smoke breaks, etc. We don't do any of this, because we were focused before.
Communication/Critique: This I find the hardest. Some people in music don't speak in music terms....a shuffle, an eigth note, the IV chord, etc. Then how to give feedback politely...the drums are too busy, no riffs over the vocals, the phrasing is off, etc. How do you say this without coming off wrong? How is it received? Depends on the situation and the expectations. Whoever brings the song, should drive how they want it done or say like the recording and have the ability to explain what's going wrong.

Thoughts? What did I miss?

What have I missed?

Frequency of Gigs/Rehearsals: Some people may only want to get together once a month while others may want to work every day, plus a range in between.

Goals: Some may want to work toward the "next level", whatever that may be, or beyond. Others may be satisfied where they are.

Travel: Stay close to home or venture out? If the latter, how far are they willing to go & how long to stay out?

 

[JRA]

Money: If this is for money, better get that out there up front.

IME: it hasn't been an either/or issue (everyone wanted money!) but: it was about "how much money?" the "how much" issue also plays into, and affects some of the other issues, too.

 

[kevindahl]

Money con't

Who owns the PA, lights and/or monitors. If it's rented then its split evenly. If its owned by 1 or 2 people do they get extra funds?

Where do you rehearse? If at someone's residence, do they get any money?

Multimedia: webpage, videos, live recordings, and band photos all cost money if done by a professional. Some might want their girlfriends to video and just maintain a facebook page.

Who books the band do they want to take a cut?

 

[pcake]

sometimes what sounds like matching expectations isn't what it seems.

we worked with a drummer. quite good for hard music although loud. he wanted to play some clubs, he said, with our original music, he said. sounded good.

after putting together a bunch of songs, and playing a couple shows, i talked to a couple bookers who wanted a band photo. not unreasonable, i thought. and this is where i found out that the drummer was unwilling to have pictures taken (it took several layers of conversation to get to that as it started with things like "band photos are lame"). and he thought clubs should always be the ones with the customers - bands shouldn't worry about bringing anyone, not even friends who'd want to be there, which meant he thought me growing our email list was pointless.

so sometimes it's worth mining down below each member's claimed expectations to make sure they're on the same level as everyone else.

 

[Shalto]

Level of of BL control and the other players tolerance of this.

BL can be anywhere on the spectrum from "cool" substitute teacher type to tyrant. Players can be anywhere on the spectrum from "i just do my job" to " how dare the BL question my 13 minute solo".

Sometimes this creates some conflict...

 

[mstillman]

"band photos are lame")

bands shouldn't worry about bringing anyone, not even friends

Why does it always seem to be drummers? Has this guy been in a gigging band before? The first quote made me wonder if he's on the lam or perhaps in a profession he doesn't want associated with this. The second quote mixed that latter idea. Must be all those hard cymbal and drum hits dulling the brain.

 

[pcake]

Why does it always seem to be drummers? Has this guy been in a gigging band before? The first quote made me wonder if he's on the lam or perhaps in a profession he doesn't want associated with this. The second quote mixed that latter idea. Must be all those hard cymbal and drum hits dulling the brain.

yes, he had been in gigging bands before, sometimes as a guitar player, but also as a drummer. in one, the singer had a following, but in none did drummer guy ever have or want any input as to gigs, so his unrealistic views were allowed to continue.

he didn't want pics because he felt he was hideously ugly, btw.

i don't know about dulling his brain, but i hear at one point he was regularly bleeding from his ears

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Thinking about this and realizing that I've never even tried to start a band. The band that was "my band" for a while was one I joined. After about three rehearsals I realized everyone was looking at me for guidance and keeping the ball rolling, etc., and that's how it became "mine." Regarding expectations, I've usually been able to figure it all out at audition time. It is also quite possible that I've just been lucky.

 

[dalkowski]

At the end of the day, unless we're raking in the dough (hypothetical in my experience) it's gotta be fun or I'm out.

 

[3Liter]

At the end of the day, unless we're raking in the dough (hypothetical in my experience) it's gotta be fun or I'm out.

What I'm doing now IS fun, but it could be MORE fun if we were all on the same page a little better.

 

[Aceman]

There is a lot of WORK involved in having this kind of FUN

 

[sean_on_bass]

Folks definitely should have similar goals, at least from a high level. Plans to gig? Original music or interpretations of other music? General sound to achieve? But what i don't personally care for is too many rules, or the band becoming a "nanny state". Rules like what to wear, strict rehearsal schedules, substances, etc. I also don't think it is a good idea to plan too much in the future for the project. First thing is to establish musical chemistry. No point in planning a grand long term plan if you don't even fit musically and aren't passionate about the art being created.

I may a bit of an oddball in these opinions, but to an extent i just don't like being a part of a dedicated band that is run like a business. I like playing with a wider mix of people and planning each musical experience as a one off thing. I get burned out playing with the same people, in a band with too many rules, where you are sometimes walking on eggshells and can't just be yourself. Resentment grows pretty easily for me in situations like that.

 

[3Liter]

Folks definitely should have similar goals, at least from a high level. Plans to gig? Original music or interpretations of other music? General sound to achieve? But what i don't personally care for is too many rules, or the band becoming a "nanny state". Rules like what to wear, strict rehearsal schedules, substances, etc. I also don't think it is a good idea to plan too much in the future for the project. First thing is to establish musical chemistry. No point in planning a grand long term plan if you don't even fit musically and aren't passionate about the art being created.

I may a bit of an oddball in these opinions, but to an extent i just don't like being a part of a dedicated band that is run like a business. I like playing with a wider mix of people and planning each musical experience as a one off thing. I get burned out playing with the same people, in a band with too many rules, where you are sometimes walking on eggshells and can't just be yourself. Resentment grows pretty easily for me in situations like that.

There was a band near me. A trio of Dad rockers in there late 50s. I think they met on the open mic circuit. They pulled together and played a bunch of gigs.

I laughed a bit at them but they made it work. They'd show up in matching T shirts and shorts. They'd go out and take dorky photos together. I don't think they GAF what people thought of their image. They did it and had fun. While I wouldn't be down with the T shirts I kinda envied then a bit.