- Aug 21, 2002
- 2,686
- 387
- Disclosures
- Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
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Double Bass Matthew's Double Bass Building Project
- Thread starter Matthew Tucker
- Start date
Is that a bass-building shop I see coming along in the background? (Stud-walls going up...gotta be your new shop, right?)
The bass looks just like an Amati.
You are doing a great job. I'll bet the sound will be superb, with that cedar top. And the Silky oak body will be an eye-catcher, too. Can't wait to see it finished. (You are close to convincing me to try an Amati model-- that really looks nice!)
Chet
The bass looks just like an Amati.
You are doing a great job. I'll bet the sound will be superb, with that cedar top. And the Silky oak body will be an eye-catcher, too. Can't wait to see it finished. (You are close to convincing me to try an Amati model-- that really looks nice!)Chet
- Aug 21, 2002
- 2,686
- 387
- Disclosures
- Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
No that's the lounge room. The workshop will be in the adjoining garage ... where no car will ever be driven!
- Aug 21, 2002
- 2,686
- 387
- Disclosures
- Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
I am wondering whether to cleat the seams in the top and back as a preventative measure? Or whether to just leave them as they are and let the next luthier to open the bass up, put cleats in if/when they are needed?
I am wondering whether to cleat the seams in the top and back as a preventative measure? Or whether to just leave them as they are and let the next luthier to open the bass up, put cleats in if/when they are needed?
Ya know - you leave the workshop door open like that, the squirrels are bound to make that kind of mess on the top of your bass
.Andy
Yes, Matthew, cleat them-- I did not cleat my top, and now, halfway through the varnish process, the center seam is letting go-- as well as other seams...so I have it back in the indoor shop, and am in the process of removing the top, so as to repair the failures.
In fact, although I did cleat the back (seven "diamond" shapes-- 50mm long (transverse) by 25mm tall), I have been advised by a local luthier to add more cleating, of spruce, about 1.5 mm thick, and continuous-- cross-grained, but side by side all the way up the back, and 50 mm wide. I will probably go ahead and do that since I have it apart anyway, and have already had a failure.
This is all somewhat traumatic, but I am glad it happened in MY shop, not the customer's orchestra.
It was really looking, good, too.... Ah, well, these things happen.
In fact, although I did cleat the back (seven "diamond" shapes-- 50mm long (transverse) by 25mm tall), I have been advised by a local luthier to add more cleating, of spruce, about 1.5 mm thick, and continuous-- cross-grained, but side by side all the way up the back, and 50 mm wide. I will probably go ahead and do that since I have it apart anyway, and have already had a failure.
This is all somewhat traumatic, but I am glad it happened in MY shop, not the customer's orchestra.
It was really looking, good, too.... Ah, well, these things happen.
- Aug 21, 2002
- 2,686
- 387
- Disclosures
- Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
But why do you think the joint failed so quickly? Doen't this indicate there something not right with your glue?
I would think so, yes. or simply my glueing procedure-- it may have cooled too quickly for me to achieve a good joint--or, the alcohol-rich sealer I merrily sloshed onto it could, I suppose, have dessicated the glue beyond its ability to hold.
Possibly the humidity changes out in my shop simply popped it apart-- I don't know.
But the sad thing is that it happened before I began my glaze, and I did not know it-- so the joint now has oil-glaze in the wood, and may not accept the glue. I may have to do a row of chalk-fit inlaid patches, to overcome this problem. I know no way to completely clean the joint of a mixture of oil paint, linseed oil, turpentine and varnish. So more radical treatment will undoubtedly be necessary. I have not decided exactly how to address it, yet, except to begin removing the top.
Possibly the humidity changes out in my shop simply popped it apart-- I don't know.
But the sad thing is that it happened before I began my glaze, and I did not know it-- so the joint now has oil-glaze in the wood, and may not accept the glue. I may have to do a row of chalk-fit inlaid patches, to overcome this problem. I know no way to completely clean the joint of a mixture of oil paint, linseed oil, turpentine and varnish. So more radical treatment will undoubtedly be necessary. I have not decided exactly how to address it, yet, except to begin removing the top.
- Aug 21, 2002
- 2,686
- 387
- Disclosures
- Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
if the joint is full of oil glaze I think I would just bite the bullet and remove the top, open the seam, plane it clean and glue it together again. Any other patch-up might be regrettable later on ...
Well-- I haven't seen it from the inside yet, but I think I only have about eight or ten inches of affected seam. If that is correct, I think inlaying patches that extend nearly completely through the plate (so as to completely replace all the affected wood) should be an acceptable alternative, and leave me with exactly the same size and shape top plate.
This is something I feel comfortable with, in terms of skill-level, but uncomfortable about the amount of time involved. On the other hand, I cannot afford to replace the top, so I have to treat this as if it is someone else's prize bass, that came to me with a pre-existing problem.
The customer has been advised of exactly what has happened, including my opinion as to the possible causes; they are undisturbed, and are confident that I will bring it to a happy end (nice to have the confidence of one's friends...).
I hope to get on it tomorrow night...mixed up a pot of fresh glue last night, and tested it by joining the plates for my next violin. It looks very good, so I will proceed.
This is something I feel comfortable with, in terms of skill-level, but uncomfortable about the amount of time involved. On the other hand, I cannot afford to replace the top, so I have to treat this as if it is someone else's prize bass, that came to me with a pre-existing problem.
The customer has been advised of exactly what has happened, including my opinion as to the possible causes; they are undisturbed, and are confident that I will bring it to a happy end (nice to have the confidence of one's friends...).
I hope to get on it tomorrow night...mixed up a pot of fresh glue last night, and tested it by joining the plates for my next violin. It looks very good, so I will proceed.
Hey Matthew
I've been following your progress for a few months now and I must say it has become one of the first websites I check out every morning. The bass looks very good.
I recently bought a new endpin for ma bass from Bob Gollihur and I've had no luck finding a luthier to help me fit it. I was thinking of buying a reamer and do it myself when I saw how you brilliantly fit the endpin to your bass. The "drill-reamer" you built, can you tell me how you did it?
I've been following your progress for a few months now and I must say it has become one of the first websites I check out every morning. The bass looks very good.
I recently bought a new endpin for ma bass from Bob Gollihur and I've had no luck finding a luthier to help me fit it. I was thinking of buying a reamer and do it myself when I saw how you brilliantly fit the endpin to your bass. The "drill-reamer" you built, can you tell me how you did it?
- Aug 21, 2002
- 2,686
- 387
- Disclosures
- Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
Gringus - the reamer is a spade bit ground to shape and glued into a split broompole with araldite. I drill the small diameter out with a 30mm spade bit then use the reamer. Pretty rough, in fact, not a great solution but it worked ... and then I had another idea, made up a "cone" with some builders bog, glued on some sandpaper and used it in my screwdriver to smooth the tapered hole. BAD mistake. Not with the ide so much, but I wasn't careful enough and over-bored the hole. Now I'll have to pack the end pin in place with some card or sandpaper or something. I'm not going to plug the hole and drill it out again just yet ...
Arnold - the bass bar is 3/4" wide. 3/8" tall at the upper bout, 1 7/8" tall in the centre, and 1/2" at the lower bout.
that going to be OK??
there are more pics of the bassbar on my website.
Arnold - the bass bar is 3/4" wide. 3/8" tall at the upper bout, 1 7/8" tall in the centre, and 1/2" at the lower bout.
that going to be OK??
there are more pics of the bassbar on my website.
Matthew, you can do a spiral bushing of that endpin hole very easily, and it is a proper, respectable repair.
- Aug 21, 2002
- 2,686
- 387
- Disclosures
- Owner: Bresque Basses, Sydney Basses and Cellos
Well-- perhaps it would. Is it a respectable head-gasket?
A Spiral bushing is one way of adjusting the size of a peg-hole or an enpin hole on a violin, or in this case-- a bass.
You wrap a glue-soaked (spruce?) shaving around a mandrel to which the glue will not stick--a correctly shaped dowel with a good coating of wax might work well--then ram it home in the offending (oversized) reamed hole, and let it dry. Always assuming you can get your mandrel back out, you then have a tapered hole the same shape as your endpin, and can go ahead and re-touch the hole with your reamer, and fit the pin as usual.
You might bear in mind which way your reamer/sander tool is going to turn, so there is no tendency to unwind the spiral from the inside when re-shaping it.
I have only done this a couple of times, and there are fellows here who can give you a much better rundown on how it is done. But it does work. And it is a little less labor-intensive and less invasive than plugging and re-drilling.
Beside all that it conserves those head-gasket trees for future generations of mechanics...
Chet
Is it a respectable head-gasket?A Spiral bushing is one way of adjusting the size of a peg-hole or an enpin hole on a violin, or in this case-- a bass.
You wrap a glue-soaked (spruce?) shaving around a mandrel to which the glue will not stick--a correctly shaped dowel with a good coating of wax might work well--then ram it home in the offending (oversized) reamed hole, and let it dry. Always assuming you can get your mandrel back out, you then have a tapered hole the same shape as your endpin, and can go ahead and re-touch the hole with your reamer, and fit the pin as usual.
You might bear in mind which way your reamer/sander tool is going to turn, so there is no tendency to unwind the spiral from the inside when re-shaping it.
I have only done this a couple of times, and there are fellows here who can give you a much better rundown on how it is done. But it does work. And it is a little less labor-intensive and less invasive than plugging and re-drilling.
Beside all that it conserves those head-gasket trees for future generations of mechanics...
Chet
Spiral bushings can't be beat for for peg hole bushings, but it seems like over kill to me for a slightly oversize bass endpin hole. I would use thin hardwood veneer and wrap it around the endpin socket. You can dampen the veneer with water and it will usually bend easily. Glue it to the endpin socket if you wish using rubber bands to hold the veneer in place while it dries.
Heifetzbass
Commercial User
- Feb 6, 2004
- 774
- 118
- Disclosures
- Owner, Gencarelli Bass Works and Fine String Instruments, LLC.
I've done pretty much the same thing myself. Seems to hold quite nicely.
Brian
See? There you have it! I knew there was someone out there who could give us the straight scoop.
I have added wood to an endpin socket before, but did not know it was "OK" to do so-- I simply did not have a reamer at the time, and could not do a spiral bushing of that size-- which I thought was the "proper" thing to do.
I'm really glad to know that sometimes practicality actually does reign in lutherie, and will definitely keep this in mind for the next time I encounter a loose endpin.
I have added wood to an endpin socket before, but did not know it was "OK" to do so-- I simply did not have a reamer at the time, and could not do a spiral bushing of that size-- which I thought was the "proper" thing to do.
I'm really glad to know that sometimes practicality actually does reign in lutherie, and will definitely keep this in mind for the next time I encounter a loose endpin.
