Maybe found a decent Gibson mudbucker replacement?

[lunarpollen]

On another note, my housemate was given an ancient (early 1970's maybe? it has a slotted headstock) short-scale no-name EB-3 copy by his father, and it has a big old mudbucker in it, and the tone out of that pickup is just HUGE! It can easily become muddy if not EQed right, but puts out a surprising amount of fierce (but not obnoxious) high frequencies. The thing just roars like a prehistoric lion through my VT Bass pedal!

 

[SGD Lutherie]

... would this be something you could do?

PM sent.

 

[lunarpollen]

I sent off an e-mail to Curtis Novak explaining my situation and asking him what the pole spacing is on his mudbucker. He replied:

mine are the same as the vintage EB-0 as I have fitted one of my vintage covers over one of my pickups.

Not the most direct answer, but could be useful.

According to my friend who has my Artec mudbucker, which was too wide, the total distance between the centers of the outer polepieces is about 52 mm.

The distance between the middle of the E and G strings of my bass over the pickup cavity measures about 48 mm.

So.........what is the pole spacing of a vintage EB-0 pickup? I'm guessing (and hoping) it's closer to 48 mm than 52 mm.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

I sent off an e-mail to Curtis Novak explaining my situation and asking him what the pole spacing is on his mudbucker. He replied:

mine are the same as the vintage EB-0 as I have fitted one of my vintage covers over one of my pickups.

Not the most direct answer, but could be useful.

The syntax is odd, but he's saying a vintage cover he has fits his pickup.

So.........what is the pole spacing of a vintage EB-0 pickup? I'm guessing (and hoping) it's closer to 48 mm than 52 mm.

I measured my vintage pickup and it's 48mm.

 

[lunarpollen]

The syntax is odd, but he's saying a vintage cover he has fits his pickup.

Yeah, I got that, but my Rivoli is a 1990's reissue and I wasn't sure if its pole spacing was the same as vintage EB's or not.

I measured my vintage pickup and it's 48mm.

That's what I needed to know! Now I just need to wait til next payday!

 

[countbassiedad]

I have an inexpensive P bass and an Allparts mudbucker but am nervous about cutting the cavity and PG. The thing is just massively large and thick. I'm fearful that a sufficiently large and deep route will weaken the body so much that the neck will snap right off when I tighten the strings. Is my concern unfounded? Lots of folks seem to Sheehan-ize their P basses and I'm not seeing any cautionary tales about split bodys. I was also disappointed that the chrome cover will not sit on top of the PG because of string clearance issues. Guess I'll have to cut the PG fancy-like or grind down the cover. Any tips from those who have done one of these?

 

[SGD Lutherie]

I have an inexpensive P bass and an Allparts mudbucker but am nervous about cutting the cavity and PG. The thing is just massively large and thick. I'm fearful that a sufficiently large and deep route will weaken the body so much that the neck will snap right off when I tighten the strings. Is my concern unfounded? Lots of folks seem to Sheehan-ize their P basses and I'm not seeing any cautionary tales about split bodys. I was also disappointed that the chrome cover will not sit on top of the PG because of string clearance issues. Guess I'll have to cut the PG fancy-like or grind down the cover. Any tips from those who have done one of these?

You have nothing to worry about. I put one in a Rickenbacker 4001, and they are even thinner. And Gibson used mahogany set necks, and often had the pickup rout cut into the neck tenon.

I would place it so the poles would be around where the 24th fret is, and not right against the fingerboard.

 

[countbassiedad]

Thanks SGD! Is yours the Allparts or similar? The one I have is 1 & 3/16 thick. Eyeballing the body it seems like the bottom of the cavity would be very thin, but maybe no moreso than if it were a semihollow.

 

[countbassiedad]

Anyone have hum issues with the Artec mudbucker? Mine hums worse than a single coil. Fully shielded, no ground loops. Pup appears to be wired correctly internally - one red to hot output, second red to ground, blacks tied together (or is that backwards)?

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Anyone have hum issues with the Artec mudbucker? Mine hums worse than a single coil. Fully shielded, no ground loops. Pup appears to be wired correctly internally - one red to hot output, second red to ground, blacks tied together (or is that backwards)?

There was a thread on this not too long ago. It turns out that the Artec mudbucker has its two coils wired up the wrong way, or one bobbin is flipped around. So its not wired up like a humbucker.

So if you reverse the two leads on one coil, or if you can flip a coil around so that the outside in on the inside, it will stop humming.

The mudbucker they sell at Link Removed is wired up the right way.

To answer you other question, that mudbucker in my Ric is a real Gibson. I picked it up NOS about 30 years ago. It does make the back of the bass very thin.

 

[countbassiedad]

I actually got mine from guitarpartsresource and have asked them to send me a replacement. A buddy sent me a thread from another forum where one guy got two bad ones in a row from GPR. Sounds like maybe it is the same pickup and the issue is at the factory.

Since the screwup could be a backwards wind or the wrong color wires attached to the pickup the only way to tell would be to try the rewire.

I'm good with a soldering iron, but not with eye surgery - a little nervous about working in those tight quarters. Since its not an expensive item, maybe I'll try adding 5 wires to it and do all the experimentation in the controls cavity.

For the time being I hard wired a .033 tone capacitor into the neck pickup circuit and that gets rid of the most bothersome hum and also gets the tone closer to where I want it for that pup.

Thanks again for the input SGD.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

I recently bought two from GPR and I tested them both out (I was only using the covers), but it could be a quality control issue.

OK, now that I'm thinking about it, it wasn't the way the coils are wired up, but the magnets were installed incorrectly.

On each side of the pickup is a magnet. The magnets should be facing the same way; i.e., either both norths or souths to the steel plate. Apparently some have the magnets installed wrong.

You can tell which pole is which on the magnet because the north pole is painted white. The south poles face the steel plate. So make sure you see white showing on the exposed face of all four magnets.

If some don't have white paint (which seems to be the case), then find another magnet or a compass and check them that way. If you use another magnet, it should repel from each exposed edge.

So the other TB'er who had the problem pulled off the offending magnets, flipped them over, and stuck them back on. You can use some super glue. But test the pickup out first.

 

[countbassiedad]

Thanks David! I'll check out the magnets.

 

[countbassiedad]

Ok, I checked them. No white paint, but all 4 p/u magnets attract an external test magnet. They also all attract the south end of a compass needle. So it seems like they are done correctly based on your description but I guess the wiring is still an unknown.

Regarding the wiring, the two coils are in series so both obviously have continuity. If one is out of phase vs what it should be I would think it might lose a lot of output and be thin sounding. I am basing that on the fact that I have a series and phase switches on my J bass. Reversing the polarity of one of the J pickups results in a thin quacky sound.

The mudbucker seems to be producing the correct tone but with tons of hum. The hum seems to be about the same whether I use a regular AC amp or my VOX amplug which is battery powered.

With the capacitor in line its actually reasonably useable, but my OCD tendencies will probably get the better of me and some weekend I'll end up trying a rewire.

Any idea if the Dimarzio would line up with the mounting holes and PG cut.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Regarding the wiring, the two coils are in series so both obviously have continuity. If one is out of phase vs what it should be I would think it might lose a lot of output and be thin sounding.

Not in this case. This is a sidewinder, and has only one set of poles, so when the coils are out-of-phase it doesn't change the tone much, but it hums.

Two reversing the polarity of a coil.

With the capacitor in line its actually reasonably useable, but my OCD tendencies will probably get the better of me and some weekend I'll end up trying a rewire.

Is the cap rolling off high end? Are you getting a low pitched hum or a high pitched buzz?

Any idea if the Dimarzio would line up with the mounting holes and PG cut.

The Model One? It should line up. The Will Power neck is has wider spaced poles. I noticed that the mudbucker from GR is wider than a vintage Gibson pickup.

 

[countbassiedad]

More good info - thanks!

The hum/buzz is mainly a higher end buzz, but yes the capacitor is rolling off the highs, just like a tone control backed off all the way would. I used an 033 at the 3 way switch vs the more typical 053 or 068 which I have on the actual tone control itself. So there is a deep cut in highs but the cutoff frequency is higher than it is on the tone control.

With the capacitor cutting the highs, what remains is a lower end hum which is noticeable but not horrible - not a bad temporary fix.

Seems like there is nothing else to try besides swapping the leads. If I do that, is there any reason not to run all 4 leads plus a ground all the way to the switch with unshielded wire? That way I could do splitting, series/parallel, etc if I decide to tinker further. The cavities are meticulously shielded with both paint and copper tape so it does not seem like it would be that important to keep the shielded wire which is a pain to work with.

Thanks again for the info and coaching!

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Well if it's high pitched buzz, make sure that the metal base is grounded. That's more of a shielding issue than a hum issue.

You can try swapping the leads, but it might actually hum in that case.

 

[countbassiedad]

Everything is well shielded and grounded. I also did a fair amount of testing with multimeter as well as trying to find ground issues with clip leads while plugged into amp. I think the wiring is clean.

 

[countbassiedad]

Hey David, I looked at the SGD site and am intrigued by all the sidewinders you offer, particularly the new J offering. Look forward to hearing more about that one.

I will probably try swapping the wires per your original idea tonight. The curiosity is driving me crazy.

That has to be it. The lead wires are at the same end of the p/u which I think is correct. So they must have screwed up the color coding.

 

[Russell foulkes]

You have nothing to worry about. I put one in a Rickenbacker 4001, and they are even thinner. And Gibson used mahogany set necks, and often had the pickup rout cut into the neck tenon.

I would place it so the poles would be around where the 24th fret is, and not right against the fingerboard.

CLIFF?!!!!