Memorizing songs?

[pepj]

I just play the song until i get the format in my head. Then I spot the changes, maybe with a prompt on a chart i can refer to then I'm on the lookout for the queue of where the change is.
People need to be able to hear simple intervals so you dont need to know exactly what note is followed by which other.
The advantage of this is that its like a mental numbers system.

It hardly ever matters what key they play it on or stuff like open strings.

When you are reviewing a new song, you just check out the most difficult section.

If a regular band and people forget chords and stuff and they can't produce a method to navigate past this then they aren't people you want in the band.

 

[ComeHomeShane]

I'm in a band with one 39-year old, and the rest of us are over 60. I'm 65. My past understanding has been that rock and roll bands memorize songs and don't go dragging music stands around. I'm the only member of this band that knows all the songs. We sound pretty good and have a small local following, but I hate to see people looking at cheat sheets and tablets and whatnot all the time.

Some of these songs are relatively challenging on bass, and since I don't read music (well, not really), I learn the parts and play them. Many of them have "signature" bass lines, like "Wild Night", and "Valerie" (I forget which version, but it's the faster one with the cool bass line, not the Mark Ronson arrangement), some Stevie Wonder tunes, and so on.

It's weird to me that after 18 mo. or so together, the lead singer forgets the words, the keyboardist plays chords wrong, and the guitarist has to look at his notebook between songs. Is it because pot's legal here? I don't understand.

We get a good reaction from the crowd, so maybe I should get over it, but I'm not bringing a stupid music stand. This isn't Lawrence Welk.

TLDR, but here's my two cents...

What you're describing sounds like a typical cover band nowadays... I'm not saying y'all aren't a good band. It's just become way more acceptable to use iPads, sheet music, and etc. on live gigs. Heck, I'm only 38 and even I remember a time when using music on stage was laughed at (for bar bands, rock bands, etc...). There's a few reasons for this, but it's besides the point of your post.

IME, if a current band, be it cover/tribute/originals or anything, wants to avoid using music on stage then it has to be an agreed-upon approach from the on set of the group. "We will not use music on stage, period." Otherwise it's very easy to slip into the habit of using music as a crutch and never getting passed it.

My last cover band had this exact problem. The rhythm guitar never practiced our songs and was always sloppy on stage. The lead female singer didn't memorize anything and even with a iPhone in her face was making constant mistakes. It was all fun and games for the first two years as we were building our rep., playing smaller gigs, and generally building our presence. However by year 3 we were starting to pick up much bigger gigs at larger venues with much higher pay.

The final straw for me was when I booked us a corporate gig at a BIG company pic-nic. A couple thousand for a full days worth. Months out I brought up at rehearsal that we need to be done with music and lyrics on stage. Everyone nonchalantly agreed, but I could tell it wasn't going to materialize. Rehearsals went on as I expected, same problems. When I brought up the issues the guitarist and female singer even started to become resentful with comments about how it didn't matter and etc... Frustration built. At the gig it went exactly how I knew it would go.

The final straw was afterwards when the company guy came to give me the check. Earlier we had played a Sublime song that both singer royally messed up on the lyrics. As I was being handed the check the guy says something like..."Love the Sublime, but your singers really need to learn the lyrics."
I quit a few days later.

Had I needed the money, I probably would have dealt with it, but this band was just a weekend warrior passion project. It was the first band that I started myself, so I learned a lot about running a band. But I was done dealing with the mediocrity. There were other issues that made it easier to step away, but I haven't looked back. Not that it matters, but since I left nearly two years ago that band has a played a total of 3 gigs at small bars. So that has been a bit of an ego-boost / validating.

ANYWAYS, my point is... No music on-stage needs to be an early phase decision. Getting the band to change course at this stage in the game will be very difficult. If it's something you're tired of dealing with, you might need to play hard ball.

 

[bbao]

It's a tough call when music isnt their full time job. I'm in the same boat as you (despite having 2 jobs too) and memorise my basslines too.
nonetheless, it just doesnt matter to some people anymore.
General consensus nowadays is that it doesnt matter as long as the band is lively, looking at the crowd, and making a good atmosphere.
As long as those three things are covered, I'm civil about the Ipads.

 

[Mark Ellis]

While I am tempted to day it is just a matter of more practice. There have been a few times in my life where songs I thought I know well started and I just couldn't remember the riff. Total mental block. I was guessing at it for a while. It was a disaster.
Strangely nobody said anything. Did they not notice? just shows how much attention they pay to the bass player.

 

[Old Blastard]

I memorize my songs and my parts. I write out a cheat sheet before every gig with the song chord structure, in every set we're gonna play and keep Ethan on a short music stand off to the side.

Years ago I went on stage and had a total brain fart and forgot every thing. I worked a tough job and the stress just wiped the song out my head. Took me several songs of noodling for it to come back.

Will not do that again.

 

[smoothbrain]

It would be too simple if it were just the reefer. There must be some sort of deep and serious brain damage behind this inability to memorize songs.

Many young folk I've met these days can't read with understanding anything beyond than a few simple nouns and verbs or even do any simple arithmetic such as addition and subtraction. Multiplication, division? Square root? What's that?

So if someone is looking at a chart, I am sceptical that they are actually reading it.

 

[SteveHeissner]

"...maybe I should get over it, but I'm not bringing a stupid music stand."

Amen, brother. I'm with you, especially when it comes to rock bands. When's the last time you saw Keith Richards looking at a music stand on stage?

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[HeavyJazz]

Paid gig = memorization
Unpaid gig = at your discretion

 

[Zooberwerx]

As of late, I've run across band-candidates who can't hear a chord change in something as simple as a well-known I-IV-V standard like "Roll Over Beethoven". If they don't have the lyrics with the chord above the correct syllable, they're lost. If diving into a pick-up gig with foreign or under-rehearsed material, I don't mind cheat sheets...I use a well hidden spiral-bound steno pad.

Riis

 

[Rib 13]

I'm in a band with one 39-year old, and the rest of us are over 60. I'm 65. My past understanding has been that rock and roll bands memorize songs and don't go dragging music stands around. I'm the only member of this band that knows all the songs. We sound pretty good and have a small local following, but I hate to see people looking at cheat sheets and tablets and whatnot all the time.

Some of these songs are relatively challenging on bass, and since I don't read music (well, not really), I learn the parts and play them. Many of them have "signature" bass lines, like "Wild Night", and "Valerie" (I forget which version, but it's the faster one with the cool bass line, not the Mark Ronson arrangement), some Stevie Wonder tunes, and so on.

It's weird to me that after 18 mo. or so together, the lead singer forgets the words, the keyboardist plays chords wrong, and the guitarist has to look at his notebook between songs. Is it because pot's legal here? I don't understand.

We get a good reaction from the crowd, so maybe I should get over it, but I'm not bringing a stupid music stand. This isn't Lawrence Welk.

Heres my take on this, and its just an opinion:

I started playing professionally in the early 1980s. Back then, gigs were 5 nights per week and "Working Cover Band Bass Player" was an actual job title that required committed employees to work multi-nights like any other dayjob (but on a night shift). There are things we learned back then from performance experience and being onstage night after night and "Dos and Don'ts" of that industry.

Fast forward to now and the 5 night per week Cover Band is a thing of the past with no other professional musicians to fill that void left by the working players of those earlier eras. Many modern players are hobbyists, part-timers, and converted bedroom players that never got to experience those working performer "Dos and Dont's". Plus, with technological advancements, it made some of those earlier practices obsolete and things we would have never done back then are now acceptable. iPads and music stands are some of those. I always read a post on TB where someone will put a picture of an orchestra or swing band using music stands, therefore its OK. My attitude is swing bands and orchestras music is much more complex: if a player needs a music stand to get through "Mustang Sally" or "Wagon Wheel", there are other issues at work here that goes beyond the music stand. For the record, I dont have an issue with iPads as long as it is on the floor or hidden from view and not blocking the person using it and the intent is temporary use for songs until memorized (I am also a vocalist and using cheat sheets has always been acceptable but the goal is to memorize, not to keep using cheat sheets for one song after a few months)

The actual working musician culture is almost gone. Im currently in the Process of making videos for my YouTube Channel that are addressing a lot of these forgotten practices. Ive already done two: one on "Swiss Army Knife" Tone Shaping and the other about the Fake Fretless technique but Im also planning videos that will address a LOT of the forgotten Dos and Dont's. Maybe future bassists will find them useful or just reinforce that Im just a dinosaur

 

[lunarpollen]

I'm all for whatever works and enables the band to sound good... I have good memory for bass lines, but I would definitely need lyric sheets If I was singing, as I even forget words to fave tunes that I've heard and sung along with thousands of times throughout my life.

 

[Five or Six]

Second page in and no one has mentioned some of the biggest names in the business using teleprompters for their own songs.

Tele- prompters aren't even noticeable on stage, especially with floor monitors being used. They blend in. No one can tell what they are and don't care. Some pro bands tape setlist to the floor to try and make them "not noticable". I still do this at certain venues.

If the crowds are good and the band is always spot on, whatever works for that band to give a regular good performance. I never allowed a music stand on stage. But, in doing 60+ songs as we do a night, with a bunch of non stop, my lead singer uses an iPad but, isn't glued to it. He does his job and works the crowd like it's not even there. I don't think Pete Townsend cares if anyone likes his music stand! What's on stage is up to the BL. Don't like something, bring up to him / her.

 

[buldog5151bass]

It's not a matter of having cheet sheets on stage (many well known bands have then, you don't see them because they are on the ground). It's not letting it interfere with your audience interface. I'd rather see a lead singer who occasionally glances at a sheet on the floor or mic stand than a bassist who spends the evening staring at his shoelaces.

 

[HolmeBass]

I play in a lot of bands. Four main bands, two of which are either all or mostly originals, and two that are about 50/50 originals and covers.

For the one all-original band I still use a stand and charts. Once you start using charts it is hard to get off of them. While it is rock, it is complex music with stacked chords and odd time signatures. I am slowly working to get off of charts, but the process is slow.

In all but one of those bands, other people use stands, mostly for lyrics.

I’d rather hear the right thing with a music stand than the wrong thing without it. Keep it low and to the side, it’s not a big deal.

And big touring bands use teleprompters, either flush in the stage or in housings that make them look like a monitor wedge. No one seems to complain about that.

To me this is just another TB manufactured outrage, old man yells at cloud kind of threads.

 

[JC BASS 91]

I am in a 6 piece. Drums, bass, guitar, keys and two vocalists.

Drummer has music stand - it has a set list and his iPad, which he will sometimes use to get the tempo right for the song we are playing.

Me - I have the songs memorized.

Guitar - Has the songs memorized.

Keys - He uses an iPad mounted on a stand for the chord charts he plays/sings from.

One vocalist uses and iPad for lyrics, the other has a music stand with handwritten pages for lyrics.

Having been out to see some other groups in this area, this seems to be the norm, now. I'm not sure when or why it changed to this being acceptable, but I have just come to terms with it and focus on my own stuff and let the other band members do their thing.

The band I played in 20 years ago? Much different. We were a 5 piece (drums, bass/lead vocals, three guitars). We ALL had our parts memorized.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Part of it also is because of synthetic and effects, we can play much more complex songs. When the Beatles were recording complex songs in the studio, they were still playing 3 chord rockers on stage, because that is what 5hey could reproduce live.

In the 80s, I played Heat of the Moment with a band (back when it was top 40). I played the keyboards, including the solo, on an organ, because that's what I had. No one complained. You couldn't get away doing that today. People want exact covers of songs recorded from infinite digital tracks.

 

[3Liter]

We have no standards for anything any more. Public behavior, how to dress for a professional job, how to do a professional job, and a lot of other things that would get this thread locked. Why should being a musician be any different than any of that? I was part of an audition for some singers, neither came "prepared" either in the music we were auditioning them on or how to be in a band (one was a little better in that aspect).

There's a joy in prepping to work with folks at the next level and having your poopie together. That to me is fun, and then you get to do it. When they haven't prepped, it's super frustrating. Let alone getting on stage that way.

 

[pcake]

it's not so much that i'm not a fan of music stands on stage - although i'm not. it's that i hate playing with people who can't take the time to at least get to know the bones of the songs and listen to them enough to know where the changes are.

 

[thisSNsucks]

I mean if you’re a pro band that has tablets on stage because you’ll take requests and play songs you haven’t played before on the fly, no problem in my book. That’s mostly going to be your bigger wedding/corporate bands.

Now if you’re a bar band that plays the same 3 hour set every couple of weeks, memorize the damn songs.

 

[MingusBass]

I had a professor in college who always told us that if you have a cheat sheet you'll be less likely to actually remember the songs, so I've been pretty committed to never using them...unless it's a last minute cram session kind of gig where I need a few pointers. It's hard enough learning 40 cover songs that you've heard before, let alone remember the names of 14 original songs you've heard for the first time a few days prior!