Mesa/Boogie Subway D-800 + cabinet simulator

[phorm]

Hi Everyone,
I have one of these Mesa bass heads. The manual says the DI/XLR out has a cabinet simulator. What cab is it simulating?

Thanks for any information you may have.

pete

 

[Geri O]

Seems like I remember the Ampeg B15 cab being discussed at the cabinet that was emulated.

I just can't be sure that it was the Subway series being discussed and/or if there was a particular cab that was the target.

Oh, well, happy to help.....

 

[ihixulu]

Mesa Subway 115 is what I recall.

 

[-Stingray]

Calling @agedhorse

 

[BaltBass5]

Hi Everyone,
I have one of these Mesa bass heads. The manual says the DI/XLR out has a cabinet simulator. What cab is it simulating?

Thanks for any information you may have.

pete

Where are you seeing that??

 

[agedhorse]

Mesa Subway 115 is what I recall.

Correct, it’s a very mild, emulation based on the Subway 115, which itself is the most neutrally voiced cabinet in the line.

 

[BGroovy]

I just used my WD800 DI out for recording for the first time. Sounds fantastic and quiet. I’ve used it for FOH before but never into an audio interface until now.

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Is "cabinet simulation" a fancy term for a tone shaping network of passive components such as resistors, inductors, and capacitors? Or, is it something done by way of digital signal processing?

 

[Smooth Operator]

Is "cabinet simulation" a fancy term for a tone shaping network of passive components such as resistors, inductors, and capacitors? Or, is it something done by way of digital signal processing?

I interpreted it as the Modal Interraction of Magneto Reluctance.

 

[Geri O]

Correct, it’s a very mild, emulation based on the Subway 115, which itself is the most neutrally voiced cabinet in the line.

And I’ll say this….

It gives my tube DIs a very good run for the money.

 

[YRPALJG]

I love this info being asked about because I've been gigging mine and playing with the di out for years and always wondered. Many, many FOH and studio engineers have said the DI is killer! And most importantly, I hear/feel that it is too.

I do session work from my home studio, running a Neve RNDI direct and an EV RE20 on a cab, freq. sculpted and combined. To mix it up though, sometimes it's D800 di out combined with the Neve for a different flavor. There's a cool low-mid and upper-mid thing that the D800 di out puts forth that is useful to me and I like it a lot for some things. My .02

 

[agedhorse]

Is "cabinet simulation" a fancy term for a tone shaping network of passive components such as resistors, inductors, and capacitors? Or, is it something done by way of digital signal processing?

Good question.

It can be done in either the digital or analog domain.

In this case, because the Subway 115 is such a mildly voiced cabinet, the emulations Are most effectively handled in the analog domain for a couple of reasons.

1. I could get the same results either way, and I prefer the simplest, most direct approach.

2. By remaining in the analog domain, this eliminates the need for an analog to digital to analog conversion and the resulting latency. This maintains time alignment to the mic’d cabinet should both be used.

3. A side benefit is that it is more reliable and costs less.

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

Thanks for the answer, (which is exactly what I expected).

I do plan to open up my new (to me) WD to have a look-see at the results of your handiwork.

I disassemble just about everything I buy, (and have done so going back to the 1960s) to see as James Clerk Maxwell is supposed to have asked..."What is the go of it?". (I love the way, (if he really said it) expressed his curiosity).

 

[eeyorebass]

Good question.

It can be done in either the digital or analog domain.

In this case, because the Subway 115 is such a mildly voiced cabinet, the emulations Are most effectively handled in the analog domain for a couple of reasons.

1. I could get the same results either way, and I prefer the simplest, most direct approach.

2. By remaining in the analog domain, this eliminates the need for an analog to digital to analog conversion and the resulting latency. This maintains time alignment to the mic’d cabinet should both be used.

3. A side benefit is that it is more reliable and costs less.

One more question: Is the cab emulation on in both Pre and Post EQ DI positions?

 

[agedhorse]

One more question: Is the cab emulation on in both Pre and Post EQ DI positions?

It's in both positions, though the pre-eq position will sound different because the post-eq signal routing includes the amp's native voicing.

 

[Old Ozzie Guy]

I was amazed how good the di's are in my TT. Diminishing returns aside, imho, they are on par as any outboard iv used.

 

[fishdude101101]

Correct, it’s a very mild, emulation based on the Subway 115, which itself is the most neutrally voiced cabinet in the line.

Do all subway heads have this?

 

[agedhorse]

I was amazed how good the di's are in my TT. Diminishing returns aside, imho, they are on par as any outboard iv used.

That was the goal.

Do all subway heads have this?

Yes

 

[FreakyAlleyCat]

Hi everyone, I'm sorry to dig up this old(er) thread but i'm struggling to find a reliable answer to this exact question.
I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Subway D-800+ as my new gigging workhorse (very tired of my v4b running into tube troubles every couple of months).

I'm using overdrive and fuzz pedals and have been sending my signal to FOH using a Sansamp on my board, that is exclusively there for the build in cab sim in order to tame the dirt pedals and create a DI signal with my dirt effects on it that will be usable for FOH straight away (quick changeovers, inexperienced sound guys, y'all know the drill, right?).

I'd absolutely love to be able to ditch the Sansamp and just send my wet signal to FOH using the Pre-DI signal of the D800+ but i've been unable to find out whether the Pre-DI is completely unprocessed or if there is some sort of high frequency roll-off involved that will act like a cab-sim and tame my overdrives. The manuals that i'm able to find online do in fact NOT mention any sort of cab sim for the DI (?) and the block diagram makes it seem like it's pulling more or less straight from the input jack. This thread has been my only indicator so far that there might be some processing happening?

@agedhorse If it's not too much trouble, could you give me some peace of mind here? Will my dirt pedals be fine on the Pre-DI signal or do I need to figure out some additional cab-sim / HF-Roll-off processing setup in order to make FOH happy?

 

[agedhorse]

Hi everyone, I'm sorry to dig up this old(er) thread but i'm struggling to find a reliable answer to this exact question.
I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Subway D-800+ as my new gigging workhorse (very tired of my v4b running into tube troubles every couple of months).

I'm using overdrive and fuzz pedals and have been sending my signal to FOH using a Sansamp on my board, that is exclusively there for the build in cab sim in order to tame the dirt pedals and create a DI signal with my dirt effects on it that will be usable for FOH straight away (quick changeovers, inexperienced sound guys, y'all know the drill, right?).

I'd absolutely love to be able to ditch the Sansamp and just send my wet signal to FOH using the Pre-DI signal of the D800+ but i've been unable to find out whether the Pre-DI is completely unprocessed or if there is some sort of high frequency roll-off involved that will act like a cab-sim and tame my overdrives. The manuals that i'm able to find online do in fact NOT mention any sort of cab sim for the DI (?) and the block diagram makes it seem like it's pulling more or less straight from the input jack. This thread has been my only indicator so far that there might be some processing happening?

@agedhorse If it's not too much trouble, could you give me some peace of mind here? Will my dirt pedals be fine on the Pre-DI signal or do I need to figure out some additional cab-sim / HF-Roll-off processing setup in order to make FOH happy?

It depends on the voicing in the pedal. Some pedals allow you to LPF tailor the distortion path to your liking before blending with the clean path. The 4 on the Floor and CrashBox 4 do this.