Mesa/Boogie Subway D-800 + cabinet simulator

[Old Ozzie Guy]

The pre di , is before everything, so the signal sent to and from the di , will be totally unadulterated. The post di will have a little magic on it, even if eq is all flat.
I have a TT800, and run both channels basically flat, all my eq is done before the amp. The post di , obviously picks up the gain settings, and the 2 voices of my amp. The magic (cab sim, valve emulation), is subtle, but definatly there.
IMHO, the di's on these heads are way better quality than any inbuilt amp di , iv ever used. On par with many top end , stand alone di's.

 

[FreakyAlleyCat]

Correct, it’s a very mild, emulation based on the Subway 115, which itself is the most neutrally voiced cabinet in the line.

It's in both positions, though the pre-eq position will sound different because the post-eq signal routing includes the amp's native voicing.

As far as I understand, "a mild cab emulation" should basically be some sort of low-end rolloff and some sort of high-end rolloff. This would be exactly what I need because overdrive pedals need some sort of high-end cutting in order to not sound horrible over DI. So I was hoping that something along those lines is already included within the D-800+ without having to use the EQ of the amp and the DI in "post" (because the EQ I'll set onstage in order to hear myself fine will most certainly not be what the sound guy needs for the PA).

The pre di , is before everything, so the signal sent to and from the di , will be totally unadulterated. The post di will have a little magic on it, even if eq is all flat.

Sorry guys, I'm still really confused. Aren't those two infos conflicting? Is there a cab-emulation on the pre-di or isn't there?

Rolling off highs on the overdrive pedals themselves is besides the point because I don't want to affect my speaker sound (which depending on the venue will sometimes also be mic'ed up of course), i only want to LPF (or "cab-sim", basically the same) the DI signal sent to FOH after my chain.

 

[DJ Bebop]

As far as I understand, "a mild cab emulation" should basically be some sort of low-end rolloff and some sort of high-end rolloff. This would be exactly what I need because overdrive pedals need some sort of high-end cutting in order to not sound horrible over DI. So I was hoping that something along those lines is already included within the D-800+ without having to use the EQ of the amp and the DI in "post" (because the EQ I'll set onstage in order to hear myself fine will most certainly not be what the sound guy needs for the PA).



Sorry guys, I'm still really confused. Aren't those two infos conflicting? Is there a cab-emulation on the pre-di or isn't there?

Rolling off highs on the overdrive pedals themselves is besides the point because I don't want to affect my speaker sound (which depending on the venue will sometimes also be mic'ed up of course), i only want to LPF (or "cab-sim", basically the same) the DI signal sent to FOH after my chain.

It is this from the designer of the amp line:

 

[Old Ozzie Guy]

I was trying to answer,just now, but I think the post above , has done a better job.
I will add that the cab sim, is very mild, don't think TwoNotes, or others.
I v found it perfect

 

[Stepdice]

It’s great to know about the mild cab sim on the XLR outputs of the Subway amps, but I can’t seem to see it in the user manual. I have the D800, and the owner’s manual only specifies a cab emulation on the headphone out.

 

[DJ Bebop]

It’s great to know about the mild cab sim on the XLR outputs of the Subway amps, but I can’t seem to see it in the user manual. I have the D800, and the owner’s manual only specifies a cab emulation on the headphone out.

 

[FreakyAlleyCat]

It is this from the designer of the amp line:

View attachment 7360644

Well, I've quoted those in my question as well, so I've already read this. But I cannot find anything about a cab-emulation in the manual for the D-800+, nor does the mesa website mention any of this or the block diagram show me anything, which is why i was getting confused and put up my question to begin with. So unfortunately this doesn't really clarify anything since it is what i was getting confused over.

In fact, if you just google "D-800+ DI cabinet simulation" this thread is the first and only thing to come up.

The Gibson website mentions a "cabinet simulation direct liverecording output", which could be anything really and also doesn't specify if it's there only in post or also in pre. The mesa website just calls it a "DI out" without any more info.

So I was hoping to get some clarification along the lines of "yeah, it's there - in post and pre - but not mentioned properly in the documentation" or anything to be able to work with before actually ordering and testing.

It’s great to know about the mild cab sim on the XLR outputs of the Subway amps, but I can’t seem to see it in the user manual. I have the D800, and the owner’s manual only specifies a cab emulation on the headphone out.

Exactly this! The info that is out there is kind of confusing and somewhat contradicting each other, so I was hoping for agedhorse to clarify.


Thanks everyone for the help by the way! I really appreciate it!

 

[Old Ozzie Guy]

Maybe, the only way you will know if it dose exactly what you want it to, is play one , with your band.. there's only so much, anyone can get, from reading about gear. ie, even if on paper it's 'says' it dose this or that.. you won't know if it is what you are chasing, until u play it, with your bass, your speakers, (pedals?), and your band.

 

[agedhorse]

The cab emulation is very mild (replicating the Subway 115 with the tweeter set to roughly the +2dB position. This was left out of the manuals for the earlier models.

It’s NOT the same thing as emulating a tweeter less cabinet, and not enough of what most players would want in a distorted signal path. That said, some distortion pedals include additional voicing that can accomplish this.

The cabinet emulation in the pre EQ position does not include a HPF because that function is better accomplished by the console (or for recording, in post production), in post EQ mode the HPF can be accomplished with the onboard filter.

 

[FreakyAlleyCat]

Aaaaahhhhhh, now I see! Thank you so much for the clarification @agedhorse !

So I guess I'll have to order a unit and test my overdrive sounds (mainly Darkglass Vintage Microtubes and a Russian Big Muff) over the DI.
Maybe the LPF on the DI will be enough, maybe it won't - but now I can be sure that at least there definitely is some filtering involved.

Whether it'll be enough depends on where the frequency cutoff is located I guess. It doesn't need to be a perfectly EQ-ed DI signal - it's the engineers Job to polish that. But overdrive stompbox signals without any (upper) frequency limitations straight into the desk are usually unusable straight out of the box and this is something I'd personally like to make sure doesn't find it's way to the console and solely in the hands of (worst case) an inexperiienced and stressed out soundguy to understand and get right straight away in a ten minute changeover.

Thank you all for the patience!

 

[agedhorse]

It depends very much on the voicing of the O/D and distortion pedals. That’s why we don’t attempt to do massive corrections, because each pedal model is so different.

 

[N-Jay]

Do all subway heads have this?

Yes

Is there also such a mild cab sim in the Subway preamp DI?

 

[FreakyAlleyCat]

It depends very much on the voicing of the O/D and distortion pedals. That’s why we don’t attempt to do massive corrections, because each pedal model is so different.

Got it, thank you very much!

Don't most bass cabinets have a relatively fixed frequency response between say 45 Hz and 5-8 kHz?
If you were to limit a DI signal to say 40 Hz to 8 kHz, shouldn't you be in a relatively good spot to make sure you get all the usable frequency for the instrument and also solve problems like drive pedals sounding awful over DI straight away? Just out of curiosity, why isn't a DI signal path designed like that to begin with?

 

[DJ Bebop]

Well, I've quoted those in my question as well, so I've already read this. But I cannot find anything about a cab-emulation in the manual for the D-800+, nor does the mesa website mention any of this or the block diagram show me anything, which is why i was getting confused and put up my question to begin with. So unfortunately this doesn't really clarify anything since it is what i was getting confused over.

In fact, if you just google "D-800+ DI cabinet simulation" this thread is the first and only thing to come up.

The Gibson website mentions a "cabinet simulation direct liverecording output", which could be anything really and also doesn't specify if it's there only in post or also in pre. The mesa website just calls it a "DI out" without any more info.

So I was hoping to get some clarification along the lines of "yeah, it's there - in post and pre - but not mentioned properly in the documentation" or anything to be able to work with before actually ordering and testing.



Exactly this! The info that is out there is kind of confusing and somewhat contradicting each other, so I was hoping for agedhorse to clarify.


Thanks everyone for the help by the way! I really appreciate it!

I am glad that the designer of the amp was able to clarify his own comments I posted and you had read from him before, which I reposted from him.

Glad that hearing it from the horse’s own mouth, again, made it clearer


Talk to Mister Agedhorse

 

[DJ Bebop]

Got it, thank you very much!

Don't most bass cabinets have a relatively fixed frequency response between say 45 Hz and 5-8 kHz?
If you were to limit a DI signal to say 40 Hz to 8 kHz, shouldn't you be in a relatively good spot to make sure you get all the usable frequency for the instrument and also solve problems like drive pedals sounding awful over DI straight away? Just out of curiosity, why isn't a DI signal path designed like that to begin with?

I am going to jump in and say that the phenomenon of running drive pedals through a DI is a newer development in the life of DIs. Most Pro DIs still in use, their design hasn't changed because what they do still works for 95% of what they are asked to do.

 

[agedhorse]

Is there also such a mild cab sim in the Subway preamp DI?

Yes

Got it, thank you very much!

Don't most bass cabinets have a relatively fixed frequency response between say 45 Hz and 5-8 kHz?
If you were to limit a DI signal to say 40 Hz to 8 kHz, shouldn't you be in a relatively good spot to make sure you get all the usable frequency for the instrument and also solve problems like drive pedals sounding awful over DI straight away? Just out of curiosity, why isn't a DI signal path designed like that to begin with?

No, and this is why the DI path is not designed with such heavy voicing. It's a tool, and like any other tool it needs to be selected to do what the job calls for.

I am going to jump in and say that the phenomenon of running drive pedals through a DI is a newer development in the life of DIs. Most Pro DIs still in use, their design hasn't changed because what they do still works for 95% of what they are asked to do.

For the most pat this is correct. Different tools for different knobs.

 

[Clark W]

Correct, it’s a very mild, emulation based on the Subway 115, which itself is the most neutrally voiced cabinet in the line.

I must have missed that. When I record using my D-800+ I use three channels on the board. One for the DI of the D-800+ set to pre, one for a SM57 and one for a Sennheiser e609. The DI signal of course always seems to be the most neutral sounding, and the SM57 and e609 both carry their own flavors both due to mic placement/cabs used and the design differences of the two mics with the e609 tending to be darker and the SM57 being brighter.

Truth is, I could get away with just the DI of the head, it's that good. But I have plenty of channels to play with and it's not like the old days of having to use tape reels.

 

[Clark W]

I am glad that the designer of the amp was able to clarify his own comments I posted and you had read from him before, which I reposted from him.

Glad that hearing it from the horse’s own mouth, again, made it clearer


Talk to Mister Agedhorse

I'll never be able to think of @agedhorse as Andy ever again. From here on out it's "Sir Ed"

 

[FreakyAlleyCat]

I am glad that the designer of the amp was able to clarify his own comments I posted and you had read from him before, which I reposted from him.

Glad that hearing it from the horse’s own mouth, again, made it clearer

Well, to be fair, you're kinda missing my point here. THIS is what solved my big question:

This was left out of the manuals for the earlier models.

Thank you everyone for helping me get a better understanding of the amp. I did in fact order one today and am looking forward to testing it out with my setup.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Well, to be fair, you're kinda missing my point here. THIS is what solved my big question:






Thank you everyone for helping me get a better understanding of the amp. I did in fact order one today and am looking forward to testing it out with my setup.

Nope saw that. He has addressed that before, but as long as it's cleared up now it's all good