Mesa Carbine M9 vs. Mesa D800+

[drewonedge]

I know that there has been some discussions around comparing these 2 different product lines from Mesa. I’m posting this to focus on feedback specifically related to these 2 different amps from Mesa.
My interest in the M9 is the full tube sound, bright and powerful with that blissful tonal sound that makes you want to keep playing it. I am accustomed to using a rack amp, so it will fit right into my rig. I know that it is discontinued, but I see that used ones are around.
Now I do like the D800+, yes the +, not the D800. I realize that the main difference is the D class circuitry and non rack portability. The non rack portability is appealing for small intimate gigs where my rack seems a little overkill, but that is by no means what will make my decision. I have watched/listened to videos with both amps and can’t really decide what sound is more appealing?
I currently am playing through an Eden tube hybrid, which has been good, but As my playing has been improving, I feel it is not the sound I really want.
Any specific feedback to the pros and cons of these 2 Mesa amps would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[shoot-r]

I can only relate what my experience has been thus far because I've also been in the process of replacing my two, aging, much-much gigged, much-much loved Mesa M-6 Carbine heads with class "D" heads.

I've not located any of Mesa's Subway heads to audition as yet, but the list so far that I have located to try....G.K MB2-500....GK MB-800....Aguliar TH500....Markbass Lil' Mark something....Ampeg PF-500....Fender Rumble 500....PV MM1000....and a PV 500.

"To my ears" none of these D heads stood a snowball's chance in h*ll of replacing the M-6's!

Once again, "to my ears" there's nothing else on the market (class D or not) that does what the M-6/M-9 Carbines do for the bass guitar's sound/tone.

Maybe when I've had a chance to audition and compare the Mesa M-6 to a Mesa Subway 800+ and a Mesa Subway WD800 I might change my mind.

 

[Wasnex]

I know that there has been some discussions around comparing these 2 different product lines from Mesa. I’m posting this to focus on feedback specifically related to these 2 different amps from Mesa.
My interest in the M9 is the full tube sound, bright and powerful with that blissful tonal sound that makes you want to keep playing it. I am accustomed to using a rack amp, so it will fit right into my rig. I know that it is discontinued, but I see that used ones are around.
Now I do like the D800+, yes the +, not the D800. I realize that the main difference is the D class circuitry and non rack portability. The non rack portability is appealing for small intimate gigs where my rack seems a little overkill, but that is by no means what will make my decision. I have watched/listened to videos with both amps and can’t really decide what sound is more appealing?
I currently am playing through an Eden tube hybrid, which has been good, but As my playing has been improving, I feel it is not the sound I really want.
Any specific feedback to the pros and cons of these 2 Mesa amps would be appreciated.

Thanks

The best thing you can do it play both amps and make an informed decision off your own experience. Make some calls and take a road trip or two. Don't rush; take your time and play every amp you come across.

I own an M9 and don't consider it to be particularly tubey sounding. As I am sure you know the M9 has big and deep lows and also very aggressive highs. I think it's a great amp, but many consider it to be brittle, sterile, and rather solid-state sounding.

Per Mesa, there is a solid state buffer before the tube so the tube does not interact with the impedance of your bass. Also the Master volume on the M9 is scaled extremely aggressively, so you really can't crank up the preamp to push the tube into drive territory. You basically have to keep the input Gain relatively low or the Master goes from off to very loud. I am not sure it's even possible to push the tube into distortion.

I haven't played any of the Subway amps. I would be most interested in the D800+ and WD800.

I used to tour with a rack rig. A rolling rack works great when your gear is packed in a cargo truck. But for local gigs where you transport your gear in your own car or truck, I think it's better to have something lighter and more portable.

My last local gig rig was bought before Class D really hit the market. It's a GK 700RB/112 combo. It's fairly heavy, but it's compact enough to fit in the trunk of a Dodge Neon, which is what I was driving in those days. The cab tilts back on wheels and it has a telescoping handling that extends, so you can wheel the amp around like air port luggage. I did many gigs where I only made one trip from the car. Of course, high volume gigs required a second trip for an extension speaker, because you can only get so much volume from a single 12".

 

[Tim1]

Huge tube fan here, I own a D800+ and have owned or played most tube heads on the market over the years, but not an M9 although I am familiar with its basic tone. The 800+ is versatile enough to get you in the ballpark of most tube heads, but toobs are toobs and if you love them nothing else comes close.
By all means stick with Mesa if that is where your loyalty lies (and I see no reason why it shouldn't), but tube heads are as different in their characteristics as non-tubes so you might want to try some different brands as well. If you can, try before you buy - buying based on videos is not optimum as I am sure you realise. Also someone recently posted in another thread about the "feel" of an amp when you play; this is an important and often ignored point IMO and something you can only experience with an amp and bass by your side.

 

[lomo]

I owned 3 M9s in the past and now have a D800+. I wouldn't describe either as "tubey". I love both. The D800+ sounds VERY similar to the M9 to my ear, but I haven't had them side by side. I find the 800+ to be far more versatile.....the front end can be pushed into a light grind if desired. The HPF is extremely useful; I always have it on a taste in order to clean up the lowest of lows. It can get bright up top and very deep/wide down low. Keep in mind the M9's volume taper is, frankly, stupid. It goes from inaudible to "where are my ear plugs" in the 1st 10 degrees of rotation, leading to an exaggerated impression of how loud it can get. The D800+ has a more linear volume pot, but it also gets ridiculously slammin' if desired. IMHO, unless you can score a later model (600 watt) or fully updated M9 for significantly less $$$ than a D800+ (which will come with a long warranty), I see no reason to opt for the M9. Just my .02

 

[Wasnex]

If you can, try before you buy - buying based on videos is not optimum as I am sure you realise.

I don't think it's possible to overstate how valuable it is to try before you buy...and actually trust your ears.

Years ago I was really interested in the Mesa M2000, but unfortunately that amp had a lot of problems. I was super excited when the M9 came out, and read all the reviews and threads. I didn't buy my M9 for several years, but I stayed on top of what people were saying and it sounded like it would be the perfect amp for me.

At some point I started collecting amps and bought a big tube head that had some problems. I took the amp to a local dealer who agreed to become a warranty station, even though they didn't carry the brand. Fixing the amp turned into a huge ordeal, so I sort of felt indebted. They carried Mesa and had my M9 and a BB750 in their showroom.

Based on everything I had read, I assumed the M9 would easily be one of my favorite amps, and that I would instantly fall in love with it. I played both the M9 and BB750 and to my surprise I found the BB750 sounded way better to my ears, but I trusted what I had read over my experience and assumed I just needed to tweak the graphic EQ a bit for tonal nirvana.

Since then, I have bought a handful of other solid state and hybrid amps (and also a bunch more tube amps), and to my surprise the M9 is far from my favorite. I can dial it in to sound awesome, but what I have found is it takes a lot of work and I can never really get it quite where I want it to go. The interaction of the tone controls just don't produce the exact frequency response curve I like. Getting the balance I normally like in the treble and high mids is very challenging, but of course the voicing can work fabulously with certain basses and styles of music.

I also find it challenging to get the lows to be tight and punchy. I think the M9 puts out more extreme low end than any other amp in my collection. The contour of the lows tends to sound a bit loose and wooly to my ears without some aggressive tone shaping and compression.

For the record I use tone preset 2, cut the lowest graphic slider, create a contoured boost in the low mids, and a contoured cut in the highs mids (basically the EQ curve is in the shape of an reversed S). I also find it's really important to use the compressor on this amp to tighten up the low end...and I don't normally use compression.

Probably the favorite amp in my collection is my Genz Benz GBE1200. Tonally it's in the same ballpark as the M9, but the natural voicing of the amp is much closer to what I like. Although the tone controls of the GBE1200 are more limited, I really like the chosen center frequencies and bandwidths.

That doesn't mean I think the OP will like a GBE1200. He might, or he might think it sounds/feels awful. The best way to find out is through a test drive.

 

[Rnr..........4]

Also curious about this. Can't decide between the M9 or WD-800.

 

[Doufuss]

The M9 is decidedly more 'solid state' sounding than it is tubey. You get a bit of fur as you rotate the input gain up and it sounds warm after 1 pm on the dial. Tremendous slam out of this amp, it's a beast. One caveat, the master is very touchy and you go from 0 to holy s#$t in nothing flat.

I find that the D800+ has a different flavor and my perception of it is it's quite a bit warmer overall than the Carbine. YMMV. It can sound crisp and bright, like the Carbine, which leads to this - The D800+ has similar power output, is more versatile in the tone control section and the HPF is worth it's weight in vibranium.

 

[sleepingEB0]

M9 is aggressive and in your face, named pretty good since the amp as super fast attack wise and sounds like firing a cannon.
The D800 is a vanilla amp that will work with you to accomplish nearly anything.
So it kind of depends what you are trying to accomplish.
I can tell you the M9 is totally awesome but not nearly as easy to live with as the light and indestructable and easy to tame and use D800.

 

[Rnr..........4]

What about the M6 Carbine?

 

[Wasnex]

What about the M6 Carbine?

What about it? AFAIK, the latest reliability updates for the M9 essentially pulled out the 900W output section and replaced it with the M6 output section. So my M9 is essentially an M6 with a graphic EQ and a compressor.

The M9 is a fabulous amp but a bit of a handful. The highs are very aggressive and the lows are enormous. This is the inherent voicing of the amp and I guess it's not really my sound. I don't find the graphic particularly musical to use but it is helpful. I typically feel like I can get the amp to sound almost like I want it to sound, then it seems to transition through what I want to something else.

The compressor is also really useful for taming the lows. I don't normally use a compressor, but I think it's pretty much essential with the M9. If I use compression I normally like a low compression ratio that you can't really hear, but you can sort of feel a little bit.

With the M9 I like a higher compression ration, but I set the threshold a bit higher. This approach really seems to help tighten up the lows.

I have my M9 dialed in really nice right now. The graphic looks approximately like this:

 

[The Bass Clef]

Years ago I was really interested in the Mesa M2000, but unfortunately that amp had a lot of problems. I was super excited when the M9 came out, and read all the reviews and threads. I didn't buy my M9 for several years, but I stayed on top of what people were saying and it sounded like it would be the perfect amp for me.

I’ve read about some problems with the M2000, but I gotta say, I put 50-100 gigs/year thru one from 2002 to 2014... not to mention about 100 practices/year on it too. It almost had as many knobs as an airplane, but once you learned to tame it, it has so many things it could do well. I eventually figured out how to run a punchy, clean tone from the SS side to one cab, and then I’d run a warm overdriven tone from the tube pre side to a different cab. I could dial in a glorious mix of the 2 tones on stage (almost like how we’ll often record bass thru a mic’d amp and also run a direct signal into a preamp and blend the 2 tracks). But, I eventually got tired of lugging the M2000, and 2 big cabs. I kinda wish I hadn’t sold that rig (not that I have any room to put it anywhere). But I’m a Class D lightweight guy these days. It’s just too easy and sounds great too.

 

[shoot-r]

I can only relate what my experience has been thus far because I've also been in the process of replacing my two, aging, much-much gigged, much-much loved Mesa M-6 Carbine heads with class "D" heads.

I've not located any of Mesa's Subway heads to audition as yet, but the list so far that I have located to try....G.K MB2-500....GK MB-800....Aguliar TH500....Markbass Lil' Mark something....Ampeg PF-500....Fender Rumble 500....PV MM1000....and a PV 500.

"To my ears" none of these D heads stood a snowball's chance in h*ll of replacing the M-6's!

Once again, "to my ears" there's nothing else on the market (class D or not) that does what the M-6/M-9 Carbines do for the bass guitar's sound/tone.

Maybe when I've had a chance to audition and compare the Mesa M-6 to a Mesa Subway 800+ and a Mesa Subway WD800 I might change my mind.

Update on this post:

As of March of last year I retired my "two", much gigged, much loved, M6 Carbines and am now gigging a Mesa Subway 800+ as my main head.

FYI: I placed both M6's on my local Craigslist yesterday!

 

[Doufuss]

What about the M6 Carbine?

Same. Same master volume sensitivity. Same slam and heft. I owned both. The 9 has the GEQ and a very good compressor, but it's a big scary animal of the same bloodline.

 

[Chef]

My interest in the M9 is the full tube sound, bright and powerful with that blissful tonal sound that makes you want to keep playing it. I am accustomed to using a rack amp, so it will fit right into my rig. I know that it is discontinued, but I see that used ones are around.
Thanks

The M9 is not a full tube amp, and really doesn't sound like one.
It's a great amp and one I used for a long time, but it doesn't embody "full tube amp" sound.

 

[Chef]

The M9 has great heft, and incredible brilliance and clarity.
The D800+ comes close to that, but isn't quite the same thing.
For me, the portability is worth more than sounding exactly like the M9.
That, and you can buy one with a 5 year warranty.

 

[Doufuss]

The M9 has great heft, and incredible brilliance and clarity.
The D800+ comes close to that, but isn't quite the same thing.
For me, the portability is worth more than sounding exactly like the M9.
That, and you can buy one with a 5 year warranty.

This. One trip in. 2 x 3015 cab on rear rollie wheels, bass in gig bag on one shoulder, pedal board and D800+ on the other, and you're in the door easy as cake.

 

[Rnr..........4]

The M6 doesn't look that bad to carry tho but what is holding me back is the lack of an EQ setting and from what I've heard a baked in sound but I didn't care for the Terror Orange amp and the Quilter Bass Block 800 didn't have more tonal options.

 

[Rnr..........4]

It's a great amp and one I used for a long time, but it doesn't embody "full tube amp" sound.

What about the WD 800? Does that have more warmth than the 800+?

 

[Doufuss]

The M6 doesn't look that bad to carry tho but what is holding me back is the lack of an EQ setting and from what I've heard a baked in sound but I didn't care for the Terror Orange amp and the Quilter Bass Block 800 didn't have more tonal options.

The 6 has the 5 position voice control plus treble, middle and bass so you can get pretty much every tone you can think of out of it. I usually just set all knobs to flat (high noon) and the voice control to 'little happy face' (one tick to the right from flat) and it sounded great. Think of it as a clean platform you can start with then introduce your pedals.

I upgraded from the 6 to the 9 to get the GEQ and the compressor, but never used the GEQ except maybe to dump the ultra low bass. The only reason I no longer own one is because of the weight. That's it.

There's nothing else like the carbines.

Here's the analogy - the Carbines are like a thoroughbred racehorse, and most all other amps are friendly little ponies.



See?