Mesa Carbine M9 vs. Mesa D800+

[Chef]

What about the WD 800? Does that have more warmth than the 800+?

yes.
you could buy from someone like sweetwater that has a good return policy and buy both and keep the one you prefer.

 

[Wasnex]

What about the WD 800? Does that have more warmth than the 800+?

I don't own either...my impression is the D800+ can be dialed in a bit brighter up top due to the Bright switch. If you don't want the extra brightness, don't engage the switch.

The D800+ also has a variable frequency HPF and a variable frequency center for the Low Mid control.

These are all features I would prefer, but YMMV.

 

[Rnr..........4]

What about Mesa Boogie preamplifier pedals? Could I get the Mesa sound if I ran a Mesa pedal through maybe a 800 watt power amp instead? That way can keep the footprint small and easy to travel with?

 

[Wasnex]

What about Mesa Boogie preamplifier pedals? Could I get the Mesa sound if I ran a Mesa pedal through maybe a 800 watt power amp instead? That way can keep the footprint small and easy to travel with?

You definitely get some of the flavor this way.

Pretty sure @agedhorse put some special mojo into some of the Subway output sections. AFAIK they all use the a same basic power amp, but I am pretty confident he has tuned the D and WD output sections a bit different. Not sure if the TT output section is more like the D or the WD, or if it is a third unique flavor.

 

[agedhorse]

You definitely get some of the flavor this way.

Pretty sure @agedhorse put some special mojo into some of the Subway output sections. AFAIK they all use the a same basic power amp, but I am pretty confident he has tuned the D and WD output sections a bit different. Not sure if the TT output section is more like the D or the WD, or if it is a third unique flavor.

Correct, you will be missing the output tube emulation limiting that's present within the power amp circuitry.

 

[Rnr..........4]

I think I'm just going to go with a Quilter and throw a Sansamp in front of it. I don't really need an M6 and no headphone jack is a put off. I'm an at home player anyways right now until I can get into a band again. Already costing me a lot figuring out things I need in the bass world. Nothing is cheap I tell ya.

 

[esoxhntr]

The M9 is a fabulous amp but a bit of a handful. The highs are very aggressive and the lows are enormous.

Yeah, I just picked one up... I think I'm going to like it... but there is SO much stuff going on with the control set - active treble and bass, passive boost only mids, voice control, graphic EQ (which Mesa recommends NOT to use oil conjunction with the voice control), etc... I have a couple of questions for you @Wasnex if you don't mind.

1. Do you generally not use the voice control and graphic EQ together?
2. Where do you start with your mid settings - 12:00 or 7:30?
3. Do you have any idea on the compression ratio control where about 3:1 or 4:1 might be?

Last night was the first time out on a gig and I experienced much of what you have already said, almost... but not quite... the bass control really seems to cut the low frequencies at about there 10:00 position. The mid control being boost only is a little tricky, next time out I think I'm going to try it at 7:30 and work up from there. I was surprised at how much mid I was trying to dial out until I read the manual this morning - oops. I may also roll a couple of different preamps tubes through just to see what differences I can hear. A cab experiment may be in order as well.

 

[Al Kraft]

I might be in the minority here (although I know Chef felt the same way), but I do not find the Carbines to be "tube sounding at all". I own all three models and find them to be aggressive, rock-voiced amps with power, slam, and punch. They can be tamed down a bit, but are always tight, focused, and quick feeling in terms of note delivery. It's also worth noting that they will not hide poor/sloppy playing technique, and in fact tend to expose and accentuate it.

I will sometimes use the voicing control to get the basic sound I'm after and then fine tune for the room/venue with graphic eq as/if needed. I tend to run the compressor ratio control in the 8 to 10 o'clock range. I have no idea what the exact ratio is, but I like the Diamond Bass Compressor (which is in the 3:1/4:1 range IIRC) so I'm guessing that setting area is close to what the Diamond would give me. In any event, the compressor is probably the most subtle aspect of the Carbine M9 IME...I find it very useful and solidly in what I would call studio quality territory.

 

[Al Kraft]

I found the information below in the M-Pulse head manual. To the best of my knowledge the Carbine compressor is based on the one from the M-Pulse. In any event it makes sense based on the setting I typically use and the answer I gave above.

At 7:30 the RATIO control begins with a minimal 1:1 ratio setting. This means that for every 1db of signal (over the THRESHOLD setting) there will be an equal 1db of compression. This setting works well for keeping your dynamic range consistent when recording or for thumbing styles where the pluck of the higher strings is popping out a little too much. Many of the best sounds can be found down around this range. As the RATIO is dialed up toward 12:00, a whole range of useful settings appear as you sweep through the larger ratios of 2:1, 3:1, 5:1, 7:1 and so on. In this range the compression effect multiplies and a much more definitive effect is produced. The lower settings of this range (up to 10:30) works well for thickening and “occupying mix space” while not increasing volume level.

 

[Wasnex]

Yeah, I just picked one up... I think I'm going to like it... but there is SO much stuff going on with the control set - active treble and bass, passive boost only mids, voice control, graphic EQ (which Mesa recommends NOT to use oil conjunction with the voice control), etc... I have a couple of questions for you @Wasnex if you don't mind.

1. Do you generally not use the voice control and graphic EQ together?
2. Where do you start with your mid settings - 12:00 or 7:30?
3. Do you have any idea on the compression ratio control where about 3:1 or 4:1 might be?

Last night was the first time out on a gig and I experienced much of what you have already said, almost... but not quite... the bass control really seems to cut the low frequencies at about there 10:00 position. The mid control being boost only is a little tricky, next time out I think I'm going to try it at 7:30 and work up from there. I was surprised at how much mid I was trying to dial out until I read the manual this morning - oops. I may also roll a couple of different preamps tubes through just to see what differences I can hear. A cab experiment may be in order as well.

I don't currently use the voicing filter (preset #3 is flat). Previously I used the #2 Voice preset which adds a baked in boost at 540hz. If you have too much mids, try preset #3.

My graphic looks like this:

Bass, Middle, Treble are at about 12:45, 14:00, 10:00

I have the compressor ratio at 12:00. No idea what the ratio is, but it feels like the compression comes on pretty fast, once the threshold is crossed.

I agree with @Al Kraft , it's not a particularly tubing sounding amp. The Master comes on so fast that you can't really dial up the gain unless you are going to play really loud.

AFAIK there is a solid-state buffer on the input of the amp (before the tube). In my experience tube rolling can sometimes produce a small but desirable change in the tone and feel of an amp. Some circuits are not very responsive to tube rolling, so you may not notice any change in tone (let us know).

I believe trying different cabs will be more useful than tube rolling.

 

[Wasnex]

I found the information below in the M-Pulse head manual. To the best of my knowledge the Carbine compressor is based on the one from the M-Pulse. In any event it makes sense based on the setting I typically use and the answer I gave above.

At 7:30 the RATIO control begins with a minimal 1:1 ratio setting. This means that for every 1db of signal (over the THRESHOLD setting) there will be an equal 1db of compression. This setting works well for keeping your dynamic range consistent when recording or for thumbing styles where the pluck of the higher strings is popping out a little too much. Many of the best sounds can be found down around this range. As the RATIO is dialed up toward 12:00, a whole range of useful settings appear as you sweep through the larger ratios of 2:1, 3:1, 5:1, 7:1 and so on. In this range the compression effect multiplies and a much more definitive effect is produced. The lower settings of this range (up to 10:30) works well for thickening and “occupying mix space” while not increasing volume level.

The language in the M9 manual is very similar.

 

[esoxhntr]

Thank you @Wasnex and @Al Kraft ! Very useful info... In my so far very limited experience (picked the amp up at 1:00 pm, played a gig at 3:00 pm) I don't find the M9 to be very "tubey" either. I'm okay with that - punchy, tight , and focused is just fine with me. I will try using the compressor to tighten up the bass a little.

I was using it to drive a Bergantino HG410, and there is WAY more volume on tap than I will ever need.

 

[Al Kraft]

Thank you @Wasnex and @Al Kraft ! Very useful info... In my so far very limited experience (picked the amp up at 1:00 pm, played a gig at 3:00 pm) I don't find the M9 to be very "tubey" either. I'm okay with that - punchy, tight , and focused is just fine with me. I will try using the compressor to tighten up the bass a little.

I was using it to drive a Bergantino HG410, and there is WAY more volume on tap than I will ever need.

...IME the M6 and M9 have more power on tap than most anyone would ever need! The M3 feels a little more like just a "big gun bass amp" and less like a weapon of mass destruction.

 

[Al Kraft]

The language in the M9 manual is very similar.

I think it may even be the same wording...I just happened to have the M-Pulse manual handy.

For the OP in case you don't have the manual for the M9, you can find a copy at the Mesa Boogie website under Support, User Manual Library, and click on "Out of Production" at the top of the list.