Mesa Subway 115 + 112: Which one on top?

[philthygeezer]

I just got an Auralex pad for this rig (115 + 112 + D800+) to try to keep the sound out of other rooms while practicing. While I am at it, should the 115 go on top, or the 112? Before the pad, I would keep the bottom cab unhooked to keep the sound off the floor. Now I want to run them both.

I remember that smaller cones have wider dispersion than bigger cones, so maybe the 115 should go on the bottom to keep the sound out of the floor. Or is the tradeoff not hearing the 115 as well?

However, the 115 has more lows, so it may resonate with the floor more than the 112, and if the 112 has wider dispersion perhaps it would be better on the bottom as I would hear it better and it wouldn't send more low frequencies into the floor?

Am I over-analyzing this?

 

[bucephylus]

I stack the 12 on top of the 15 for performance.

But, reading your Q, I’m unsure which stack would reduce floor coupling. The Auralex will not reduce floor coupling, and will more likely increase it. Floor coupling initially increases as cabs are raised, and then decreases after 10” to 12” elevation.

You will get better reduction of floor coupling by putting some thick foam mats in front of the drivers. The primary coupling is from the projected waves emanating from the drivers. You need about 4 - 5 ft of foam mat to get most of the acoustic energy soaked up. GL.

 

[Al Kraft]

I generally use the HPF and EQ to deal with any venue acoustic problems. I like the 112 on top as it is more mid focussed than the 115. In most situations I can usually feel/hear the bass notes, but want a little more presence/clarity in the mids I'm hearing.

At the end of the day I would say there is no single right answer. I've heard folks discuss this topic a lot and when all is said and done different approaches seem to work equally well for different folks. My advice would be to experiment a bit and see what sounds best for you.

 

[Verb the Noun]

I remember that smaller cones have wider dispersion than bigger cones

IME, it is the opposite.

 

[gtirard]

I'm sure @agedhorse will soon bring the light

 

[Lobster11]

Captain Obvious here. How about just trying it both ways and see which you like better?

 

[lermgalieu]

Captain Obvious here. How about just trying it both ways and see which you like better?

Seconded. I used to have this same stack and I would stack them either way depending on my mood and the room.

 

[roller]

+1 on the 12 over the 15.

Also, it's handy to have a handful of rubber feet in your gear bag in case you should run into coupling issues with the room you're in.

And no need to drop in on the expensive stuff made by acoustic nerds -- there's scads of rubber feet on eBay which are made to prevent slipping and vibration on major appliances. These work great.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

I play the SW112/115 stack and I go back and forth. Subtle difference and from 20 ft away; I think I'd have a hard time passing the pepsi challenge from that distance on out. Standing closer, you can hear the different voicings a little bit better. I've done most of my experimenting with a carpeted basement floor in a large space; a more reflective boundary might make more of a difference. I've tried each on top for both gigs and practicing, and from a practical standpoint, it doesn't matter that much. I do have PA support on our gigs, which influences the sound much more than whether the 12 or the 15 is on top.

Standing closer, you can hear the different voice things a little bit better. Lately, I've had the 112 up top. When I'm practicing and Mrs Thumpenstein's around, I'll often unplug one cab. I tend to emphasize mids with the music we're playing these days, and the 12 gives me plenty of mids and a little less of the wall-ignoring deep bass, so a little less intrusive to my lovely wife. So I unplug the 115 and everybody is happy. But truth be told, we both be happy if I soloed the 115 in the same context, because the difference is very small.

 

[Killing Floor]

I’m just here to heap praise upon you for practicing with a 12 and a 15. So refreshing compared to the tired “I want my amplified signal to be quieter than an unamplified signal” threads.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

In this scenario I would put the 15 on the bottom. In my scenario both cabs would be Mark Bass 15s. Or my Eden 410.

 

[Marko 1]

Am I over-analyzing this?

I'm gonna say yes on this.

If the cabs are different sizes, I'd put the larger one on the bottom so it doesn't look janky...

we don't want janky-looking rigs.

 

[Redbrangus]

The 115 should be on top... of another identical 115, IMHO, but hey, that's just me.

I don't get trying to minimize the acoustic impact in adjacent rooms while also increasing the acoustic radiating area. I think you'll find your Auralex pad does nothing that affects that issue.

 

[micguy]

IME, it is the opposite.

Nope - smaller sources have wider dispersion - audio is all about wavelengths; the smaller your source is, the further up it will reach frequency wise before it starts to beam. So, in general, a 12 is going to have slightly better dispersion than a 15. There is an asterisk here, though - when the cone breaks up, it is not moving as a piston, so things get more complicated. There, the speaker with the smallest diameter voice coil is the one likely to beam the least. Typically, that's the smaller one overall, but not always.

This is a misunderstanding that often gets applied to pickups as well - you'll see someone say that their pickup has a bigger aperture, so it captures more harmonics, which is precisely the opposite of how things work - a very small aperture is how you capture more harmonics - again, it's all about wavelengths.

Short answer: 12 on top

 

[Low Commotion]

I put my 12 on top and the 15 on the bottom because it looks cooler that way. I’ve tried both ways, and quite frankly, I can’t hear a difference (it might have to do with my 68 year old ears)

 

[Al Kraft]

...it might have to do with my 68 year old ears

...I almost hear you on that one....same problem!

 

[philthygeezer]

Captain Obvious here. How about just trying it both ways and see which you like better?

Because I don't live downstairs...

 

[Wasnex]

Try it both ways and make your own choice. The 112 has 400W average mechanical power handling above 50hz. The minimum is 385W at 74.3hz. This is your limiting factor.

The 115 also has 400W average mechanical power handling about 50hz. The minimum is 400W at 67hz.

Either configuration should be relatively safe with an 800W amp unless you are really goosing the low end and pushing the amp into clipping.

Choose what you like.

 

[Lobster11]

Because I don't live downstairs...

So... Try it one way and see if the neighbors complain. If they do, try the other way.

Lemme just add that if you're in an apartment or dorm room or something, it won't matter: The neighbors are gonna complain either way. Bass frequencies will penetrate walls, floors, and ceilings however you arrange your cabs.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I just got an Auralex pad for this rig (115 + 112 + D800+) to try to keep the sound out of other rooms while practicing. While I am at it, should the 115 go on top, or the 112? Before the pad, I would keep the bottom cab unhooked to keep the sound off the floor. Now I want to run them both.

I remember that smaller cones have wider dispersion than bigger cones, so maybe the 115 should go on the bottom to keep the sound out of the floor. Or is the tradeoff not hearing the 115 as well?

However, the 115 has more lows, so it may resonate with the floor more than the 112, and if the 112 has wider dispersion perhaps it would be better on the bottom as I would hear it better and it wouldn't send more low frequencies into the floor?

Am I over-analyzing this?

Maybe. While your question asks specifically about two cabs and their placement, being honest I have no clue what would be better. Is the reason you are asking is to get the best idea of what your Auralex will do without bothering your family, and or neighbors?

If so, a couple of things come to mind. With the second cab you are adding a significant amount of dBs. To combat that would be to reduce you volume setting on your amp. This may also change the tonal characteristics of you cabs as "less air" will be moved in each cab.

Me, I'd stick with one cab stacked on an unpowered one as it will give you more of a real world gig sound. If you are determined to use both cabs, I would get a smaller cheap like end table to put your cabs on.