Mesa Subway Bass DI-Preamp

[agedhorse]

take the existing unit, stack knob the mids, replace the voicing with the HPF.. rule the world

With the common theme being along these lines, both in this thread as well as numerous PM's over the past few months, we really have been listening to your comments and suggestions (@Steve, @Jeff Scott, @mmbongo, @BassikLee, @biggredd, @Al Kraft, @Mr. Majestic, @monkeyland, @nostatic,@beans-on-toast). Might this fit your needs better than the Subway? Your thoughts and comments were taken seriously and are appreciated in the interest of bringing a more "real world" useful product to you players.

 

[nostatic]

Noice. For those who prefer to read:

Mesa Boogie Rosette Acoustic Guitar Preamplifier | MESA/Boogie®

Looks like a pretty sweet bass preamp as well.

 

[John B jr]

With the common theme being along these lines, both in this thread as well as numerous PM's over the past few months, we really have been listening to your comments and suggestions (@Steve, @Jeff Scott). Might this fit your needs better than the Subway?

I noticed that item just a few minutes ago when I was reading the manual (it happens!) for the Subway. Looks like another winner. BTW, the info I was seeking was about the Subway's built-in high-pass filter. 30 Hz is a good place to cut off the signal. The literature says that the Deep switch lowers the pass frequency but not how low it actually goes. I know my B string likes it and my rigs can handle it.

Meanwhile, there's a thread today from a bassist who had a sound-man tell him his signal was muddy. Was the first gig for the player, possibly the sound expert too. Bring the black box - or this white one and that is much less likely. Still possible depending on the bass's EQ and other factors but unlikely nonetheless. Wonderful products!

 

[agedhorse]

Noice. For those who prefer to read:

Mesa Boogie Rosette Acoustic Guitar Preamplifier | MESA/Boogie®

Looks like a pretty sweet bass preamp as well.

With all of your comments and suggestions, the feature set was expanded to be more useful for upright players as well as electric players who don't need/want the voicing control and the deep/bright switches. Yes' it's larger, but as much as I had feared. There is a matching acoustic amp that also had the feature set and low frequency performance enhanced to include upright players at a pretty significant volume. The cabinet includes 2 x 8" Neo drives with 2" edge wound voice coils in a sealed box, critically damped alignment. With an upright, which as an instrument is under-damped (ie. will resonate when you tap the body with your finger, any additional under-damping by the speaker will contribute to additional feedback potential as the stored energy is released back into the acoustic system around the two (or potentially more) resonant points.

Hope to feature some TB member demos as they become available, as IMO there was some very thoughtful and useful contributions by some of you guys.

 

[agedhorse]

I noticed that item just a few minutes ago when I was reading the manual (it happens!) for the Subway. Looks like another winner. BTW, the info I was seeking was about the Subway's built-in high-pass filter. 30 Hz is a good place to cut off the signal. The literature says that the Deep switch lowers the pass frequency but not how low it actually goes. I know my B string likes it and my rigs can handle it.

For upright, 40Hz cutoff works out well because of the typical boost that occurs around the resonance. For example (showing the math), a resonance of 3dB at 40Hz results in an effective shift of the HPF's -3dB point from 40hz to about 32hz, which is why the MINIMUM HPF frequency is a little higher. It's more usable for most acoustic bass applications this way. Even for an electric, we find that most players settle for between 35-50hz (unless correcting for a specific problem). It's the sort of thing that you have to try out to see if it works for you.

On the Subway, the DEEP switch lowers the 30Hz HPF to around 27-28Hz IIRC. This is why we recommend being sure your speakers have the necessary capabilities if you are using the DEEP switch at high volumes. With the Subway cabinets it's not a problem, but other cabinets are sure to be different and we don't want to see players damage their speakers.

 

[mmbongo]

With all of your comments and suggestions, the feature set was expanded to be more useful for upright players as well as electric players who don't need/want the voicing control and the deep/bright switches. Yes' it's larger, but as much as I had feared. There is a matching acoustic amp that also had the feature set and low frequency performance enhanced to include upright players at a pretty significant volume. The cabinet includes 2 x 8" Neo drives with 2" edge wound voice coils in a sealed box, critically damped alignment. With an upright, which as an instrument is under-damped (ie. will resonate when you tap the body with your finger, any additional under-damping by the speaker will contribute to additional feedback potential as the stored energy is released back into the acoustic system around the two (or potentially more) resonant points.

Hope to feature some TB member demos as they become available, as IMO there was some very thoughtful and useful contributions by some of you guys.

Looks like a fantastic acoustic DI and amp there! Makes me want to start back playing acoustic/electric....which has been in the back of my mind for a while. I'll definitely pick up the DI if not the amp as well when I do. I've always wanted a really nice acoustic amp.

But, the Rosette could never replace my Subway DI on bass for a couple of reasons. I know it's not designed to do that, but I'm going to list them anyway First is the voice control on the Subway which is critical for me. Next is the size. The Subway DI fits perfectly on a Pedaltrain, and if it were any longer it wouldn't fit right (or maybe not all) and the Rosette is about 3" longer. Lastly is the bypass output which I use for when I'm not using my Subway amp. I may have missed it but I didn't see a bypass on the Rosette. Really, the only thing I wish the Subway DI had is the variable HPF and that's mainly because if the Subway DI had it, I could eliminate both of my separate HPF pedals (one for each pedalboard).

 

[sirvill]

Must say, I'm loving the new rig of Mesa Subway Preamp DI > Peavey IPR 1600 DSP. My back loves it too (as do bandmates as its at least one less trip to the car now!!)


I'm currently running it with the poweramp on full volume and using the Master Volume of the DI for volume control - is this the best way to do it? Should I be turning down the poweramp?

 

[monkeyland]

With all of your comments and suggestions, the feature set was expanded to be more useful for upright players as well as electric players who don't need/want the voicing control and the deep/bright switches. Yes' it's larger, but as much as I had feared. There is a matching acoustic amp that also had the feature set and low frequency performance enhanced to include upright players at a pretty significant volume. The cabinet includes 2 x 8" Neo drives with 2" edge wound voice coils in a sealed box, critically damped alignment. With an upright, which as an instrument is under-damped (ie. will resonate when you tap the body with your finger, any additional under-damping by the speaker will contribute to additional feedback potential as the stored energy is released back into the acoustic system around the two (or potentially more) resonant points.

Hope to feature some TB member demos as they become available, as IMO there was some very thoughtful and useful contributions by some of you guys.

It looks like a really great solution. Certainly it's got pretty much all of the features that I've been wanting and would fit my workflow really well along side my Subway DI for doubling situations.

What is the input impedance?


I envision something like this.

Subway DI(electric bass) and Rosette(NS NXT) with their xlr preamp outs going into into a Radial Hotshot ABo
Output of ABi would go to something like a GK MBP(there's not a lot on the market like it)


This would allow me to have full control of my signal but also be able to give separate lines for each instrument to Front of House via the DI outs, it would also make a good IEM feed as I'm trying to use them as much as possible.

 

[MTN.bass72]

With the common theme being along these lines, both in this thread as well as numerous PM's over the past few months, we really have been listening to your comments and suggestions (@Steve, @Jeff Scott, @mmbongo, @BassikLee, @biggredd, @Al Kraft, @Mr. Majestic, @monkeyland, @nostatic,@beans-on-toast). Might this fit your needs better than the Subway? Your thoughts and comments were taken seriously and are appreciated in the interest of bringing a more "real world" useful product to you players.

It'd be great if you could show a demo with upright. Interesting little unit.

 

[BassikLee]

Tough call. The new preamp hits most of the must haves. That said, the 800+ head hits them all, and includes an 800 watt amp, for just over twice the price.

 

[John B jr]

For upright, 40Hz cutoff works out well because of the typical boost that occurs around the resonance. For example (showing the math), a resonance of 3dB at 40Hz results in an effective shift of the HPF's -3dB point from 40hz to about 32hz, which is why the MINIMUM HPF frequency is a little higher. It's more usable for most acoustic bass applications this way. Even for an electric, we find that most players settle for between 35-50hz (unless correcting for a specific problem). It's the sort of thing that you have to try out to see if it works for you.

On the Subway, the DEEP switch lowers the 30Hz HPF to around 27-28Hz IIRC. This is why we recommend being sure your speakers have the necessary capabilities if you are using the DEEP switch at high volumes. With the Subway cabinets it's not a problem, but other cabinets are sure to be different and we don't want to see players damage their speakers.

Thanks for the reply, Aged. I used to have a Carvin rig that had "too much" in the way of EQ. For that matter, my Carvin (Kiesel, but whatever) bass can be fiddly as I mess with the active electronics. I find myself liking to keep it as simple as possible so I run it passive. All I have is the pick-up balance and volume on bass. This is where the Subway shines. The top row of knobs can be used to compensate for the equipment like a split coil that is too thick or a room that is too bright and the bottom row can be where I sculpt a stage tone all while giving the FOH a consistent signal pre EQ. I always get the results I want. Said it before, Mesa results. /Boogie results!

My use case for the Rosette would be limited to recording where we're not under the time constraints - or at least not as under since we own the studio. So someday, maybe the Rosette and a Vintage Micro Tubes to fill up the effects loop and did someone mention a white compressor? That set-up and call it a day. For now, I'm happy with my Blackbird board with the black boxes with the Subway DI at the heart of it all.

 

[JLW]

Yes, of course I forgot to include the disclaimer "within reason"

I'm listening, how much interest do you think there would be for a "plus" style pedal?

i would get a + DI!!!

I own a D800 head and the EQ points are all a bit too far on the low end for my personal preferences...not sure if I fall in the majority and I'm sure you guys did a ton of tuning and research to get to where you did....but a 180 HZ center point for low mids is simply way too low...500 HZ for mids sorta makes sense but I'd probably change that to be closer to 700-800 for my personal use, since my bass has an onboard preamp that boosts/cuts the 500 Hz frequency anyway.

 

[agedhorse]

Must say, I'm loving the new rig of Mesa Subway Preamp DI > Peavey IPR 1600 DSP. My back loves it too (as do bandmates as its at least one less trip to the car now!!)


I'm currently running it with the poweramp on full volume and using the Master Volume of the DI for volume control - is this the best way to do it? Should I be turning down the poweramp?

This is probably fine, if the noise level is good then you are good. On the IPR amp, you can probably lower the input sensitivity by 3dB and improve the noise floor a little bit, but I doubt it's necessary.

 

[agedhorse]

It looks like a really great solution. Certainly it's got pretty much all of the features that I've been wanting and would fit my workflow really well along side my Subway DI for doubling situations.

What is the input impedance?


I envision something like this.

Subway DI(electric bass) and Rosette(NS NXT) with their xlr preamp outs going into into a Radial Hotshot ABo
Output of ABi would go to something like a GK MBP(there's not a lot on the market like it)


This would allow me to have full control of my signal but also be able to give separate lines for each instrument to Front of House via the DI outs, it would also make a good IEM feed as I'm trying to use them as much as possible.

Input impedance is 1M, which is beyond the point of diminishing returns for 95% of all piezo-ceramic pickups. The benefit of 1M is the lower noise floor and improved damping for those 95% of pickups (including all active preamp pickups). The 5% that use the really tiny crystals might benefit from a 10M buffer IF the instrument doesn't already include it onboard.

I think your signal routing w/ DI's will work just fine as well.

 

[Steve]

I'm good with the 800+ di. I'd buy that front end in a floor box for all kinds of reasons. The HPF is what I am drooling over, the more bells and whistles you hang on that thing is just stuff I'll never use that I don't want to pay for. I'm looking for definitive rough control of the bottom in an uncontrolled environment. It's been my experience, if I can get that done, everything else get's a LOT easier for everyone including the guy sitting FOH.

I have a big stage thing monday that puts me up first so I'll actually have a chance to run the 800+ into a BFPA and the time to goof with it to see if it will control what I want it to control for me.

 

[agedhorse]

I would like the D800+ preamp in DI form. Then, just add a lightweight 800-watt power section. . Oh, wait. .

Seriously, the Rosette feature set matches wants of many stated earlier in this thread. Those that look at its features and specs should be well pleased. Others may be dissuaded/concerned with targeted marketing towards "Acoustic."

This same type of issue exists with Acoustic Image products in their broad perspective of offering instrument amplification, not just bass. Also, MXR repackaged their white M87 Bass Compressor, changing it to black M76 Studio Compressor for electric guitarists. Same box, different packaging and marketing strategies.

Agreed, this will work just fine and shares the same performance parameters as an electric bass Pre-DI but with a differently derived feature set.

 

[agedhorse]

It'd be great if you could show a demo with upright. Interesting little unit.

Agreed and working on something dedicated to bass players.

 

[monkeyland]

It'd be great if you could show a demo with upright. Interesting little unit.

I'm going to try to get my hands on one as soon as possible. I play an ns nxt and may be able to put something together.

 

[sstillwell]

With the common theme being along these lines, both in this thread as well as numerous PM's over the past few months, we really have been listening to your comments and suggestions (@Steve, @Jeff Scott, @mmbongo, @BassikLee, @biggredd, @Al Kraft, @Mr. Majestic, @monkeyland, @nostatic,@beans-on-toast). Might this fit your needs better than the Subway? Your thoughts and comments were taken seriously and are appreciated in the interest of bringing a more "real world" useful product to you players.

Holy poopie, that's an incredibly nice unit. Well done!

 

[Jeff Scott]

With the common theme being along these lines, both in this thread as well as numerous PM's over the past few months, we really have been listening to your comments and suggestions (@Steve, @Jeff Scott, @mmbongo, @BassikLee, @biggredd, @Al Kraft, @Mr. Majestic, @monkeyland, @nostatic,@beans-on-toast). Might this fit your needs better than the Subway? Your thoughts and comments were taken seriously and are appreciated in the interest of bringing a more "real world" useful product to you players.

Excellent product, with an equally excellent demo video! Even though it is "marketed" as an acoustic preamp, I see that it really is an all round preamp with a superb feature set for any instrument. Bravo!