Meter tempo "conversion" - triple to duple - help?

[kesslari]

I'm working on a passage by Strunz and Farah. Now I'll never get it up to their tempo, but still, I'm curious.
It's 8th note triplets, so "6 notes in the space of 4 regular 16th notes".
If I'm playing this at 90 BPM, what is the equivalent tempo if I were playing regular 16ths?
I'm thinking that 6 notes would be a bar and a half, and so if I were playing them as regular 16th's at the same speed the tempo would be 1.5x (or 135 bpm).

Don't know if I'm explaining it clearly, but if it makes sense, am I accurate (or can you correct me)? And if it doesn't make sense, please help me clarify.

 

[jallenbass]

What song is it?

 

[kesslari]

El Caracol.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I'm working on a passage by Strunz and Farah. Now I'll never get it up to their tempo, but still, I'm curious.
It's 8th note triplets, so "6 notes in the space of 4 regular 16th notes".
If I'm playing this at 90 BPM, what is the equivalent tempo if I were playing regular 16ths?
I'm thinking that 6 notes would be a bar and a half, and so if I were playing them as regular 16th's at the same speed the tempo would be 1.5x (or 135 bpm).

Don't know if I'm explaining it clearly, but if it makes sense, am I accurate (or can you correct me)? And if it doesn't make sense, please help me clarify.

No, that's not right, if it's 8th note triplets, that single triplet takes the place of a single quarter note. The length of a quarter note is equivalent to two 8th notes, an 8th note triplet, four 16th notes, etc. etc.

 

[kesslari]

No, that's not right, if it's 8th note triplets, that single triplet takes the place of a single quarter note. The length of a quarter note is equivalent to two 8th notes, an 8th note triplet, four 16th notes, etc. etc.

Right, my bad. But what is the tempo conversion?
In one measure of 8th note triplets there are 12 notes played, in one measure of eighth notes there are 8 notes played, still a 1.5/1 ratio.
In this case I guess they are 16th note triplets (6 notes per quarter note) so in a bar there are 24 notes played vs 16 notes of 16th's. Still that 1.5 to 1 ratio.
Or am I missing something?

 

[Papageno]

I'll tell you as soon as I'm done with the math...

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Right, my bad. But what is the tempo conversion?
In one measure of 8th note triplets there are 12 notes played, in one measure of eighth notes there are 8 notes played, still a 1.5/1 ratio.
In this case I guess they are 16th note triplets (6 notes per quarter note) so in a bar there are 24 notes played vs 16 notes of 16th's. Still that 1.5 to 1 ratio.
Or am I missing something?

I'm missing the point of this. Simply playing these in time in the time signature in which they are written is the solution. You are not doing any kind of metric modulation, so attempting to determine what the metronome marking and time signature for 16th note triplets would be if they were just 16th notes just seems a pointless intellectual exercise. If you're having a hard time playing the triplets SLOW IT DOWN AND INCREASE THE RHYTHMIC SUBDIVISION. Turn the quarter note click into an 8th note ( 1 2 3 4 becomes 1 and 2and etc.) and play 3 even notes on each click.

If what you were doing was an actual metric modulation ( moving from 4/4 to 3/4) the way you would think of that would be 8th note = dotted 8th note, so yes IF MODULATING METRICALLY 1 = 1.5. But if you're staying in 4/4 thinking of it in that way doesn't do anything for you except add confusion.

 

[kesslari]

Thanks Ed. It definitely was a mental exercise.
Essentially - there's a cognitive dissonance between how fast I'm playing this (which feels like the edge of my abilities/comfort zone) and how fast *they* are playing it. Of course, *they* are Strunz and Farah... But I hear it at that tempo and it feels attainable... and then I note that I'm playing at about 60% of their tempo...
I know, for example, that 16th note runs at 120 are well within my wheelhouse, and at 140 are at the edge of my abilities. I don't have the sense of how that relates to triplet runs. And as you say, I don't really need to... just wondering.

 

[JRA]

If I'm playing this at 90 BPM, what is the equivalent tempo if I were playing regular 16ths?

90 BPM x 3 8ths per beat = 270 8th 'strikes' PerMin
90 BPM x 4 16ths per beat = 360 16th strikes PM

270 / 360 = 0.75

0.75 x 90 BPM = 67.5 BPM


that "factor" isn't really "1.5" --- it's 1.3333333333.... (360 / 270 = 1.3333333333....)
so, 67.5 BPM x 1.3333333333.... = 89.9999999...., or: 90 BPM

make sense?