Double Bass Metronome

[anonymous0726]

I think this is the way they see it--especially the driving part. Easier said than done for--at least for me.

Trying to do it is hard. Doing it is easy.

...the feeling you get when you are dribbling and driving the ball forward - light, controlled, precise - rather than trying to pound the ball into the ground.

Everytime I touch a basketball I jam my thumb. I haven't come within less than 15ft. of a basketball in years.

 

[Steve Killingsworth]

Trying to do it is hard. Doing it is easy.

I see Master Yoda.

 

[anonymous0726]

All more appropriate than I can describe. I'm not Yoda yet, but I'm working on it...

 

[bassbloke]

Thanks to everyone - some great and useful replies. I need to get to work...........

Thanks especially to Ed for taking the time to compose such a detailed response. A bit frightening though - how long does it take to practise a new tune as thoroughly as that? - I'm thinking weeks at least, more likely months?

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I'm a big fan of making up new exercises all the time. Something that started as an abstract exercise in control and turned out to be very useful out in the real world was dropping and adding beats at will. <shudder>

For many of us who have grown up listening to swing, bop, the motown/atlantic stuff and a whole lot of other north american pop music feeling the backbeat is not an issue and practicing only on 2 & 4 is of limited value. Sure those are the "feel" beats but for us bass players 1 & 3 are the "money" beats. Practicing click on just 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 is a good thing as it is not easy to hide inaccurate time and with it on 1 beat of every 4 or 8 bars is really telling. Bottom line is that if the click is not comfortable for you any and everywhere then you have work to do and as soon as it gets totally comfortable move on.

People have posted good stuff here and a search of talkbass, tbl and usenet archives will turn up a whole lot more. Do it all. Any practice to click with an attentive mind is of value. Especially if it hurts.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Any practice to click with an attentive mind is of value. Especially if it hurts.

And that, boys and girls, is the crux of the biscuit in a nutshell. And no clinic required.

 

[Steve Killingsworth]

Any practice to click with an attentive mind is of value.

This has turned out to be a very timely thread. We had a 3 hour practice last night and I put some of these ideas into action. Rather than concentrate solely on my playing, I relaxed, kept my eyes closed, and listened to everyone else-focusing on various instruments at various points. All of a sudden it was easy to drive the music from the front. The rest of the band was very pleased with the result. I even felt pretty good about it (I am usually hyper-critical of my playing). It turned out to be one of the best practice sessions we have every had.

 

[nypiano]

I think the metronome should be used as a jury but not a constant partner. You really need to know how well you do without it and with others--whose time skills may vary. Many and of us to one extent or another try to overcome the technical fault of moving a particular tempo to one that "feels" better-it’s almost a physical thing where you have a “swinging act” that use –let’s say your fabulously swinging favorite walking bass pattern and you push it through against the reference point you use for that act . The problem is you find the reference point you use is moving—that’s where the metronome comes in to rein you in. How do you get past the point when you’re constantly disappointed at the results of the “jury”? One thing I have tried to do is to develop a wider palette of tempos. For example if you do big division of tempos 60 120 180 240 300. Then divide between those 90, 150, 210 then divide those,etc . Perhaps write a tune or a line for each subdivided tempo. I think the idea is you don’t move the tempo because you hear that one very clearly and how it flows. This is similar to pitch training only you are hearing rhythm as the color.

 

[Johnny L]

Rather than concentrate solely on my playing, I relaxed, kept my eyes closed, and listened to everyone else-focusing on various instruments at various points.

Clearly, you're using the 'nome all wrong. Instead of hearing it and learning to play along with it, you need to set it for beats 2 and 4 only, and then continuously beat yourself up for not playing ahead or behind it in some mystical way that only you can decipher.

Geesh...do you want to give away all the secrets?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I think the metronome should be used as a jury but not a constant partner. You really need to know how well you do without it and with others--whose time skills may vary. Many of us to one extent or another try to overcome the technical fault of moving a particular tempo to one that "feels" better-it’s almost a physical thing where you have a “swinging act” that use –let’s say your fabulously swinging favorite walking bass pattern and you push it through against the reference point you use for that act . The problem is you find the reference point you use is moving—that’s where the metronome comes in to rein you in. How do you get past the point when you’re constantly disappointed at the results of the “jury”? One thing I have tried to do is to develop a wider palette of tempos. For example if you do big division of tempos 60 120 180 240 300. Then divide between those 90, 150, 210 then divide those,etc . Perhaps write a tune or a line for each subdivided tempo. I think the idea is you don’t move the tempo because you hear that one very clearly and how it flows. This is similar to pitch training only you are hearing rhythm as the color.

This is great advice. The notion of "favorite tempos" toward which we all tend to gravitate is no myth. While I feel that the above method (which I use, BTW) is extremely valuable, it does have its limits....I know of a drummer who shall remain nameless who often claims to hear a big difference between 120 and 118, for example, as in, "hey, that feels great, but that's more like 118 than 120, dig?". In other words, at some point the divisions become pretty spurious, but the above exercise, as listed, is excellent in spite of the fact that it came from a piano player.

 

[nypiano]

..pretty spurious, but the above exercise, as listed, is excellent in spite of the fact that it came from a piano player.

Like saying.. pretty good for a gurrl...

you probably have to consider the source there--that person is obviously taking it to pretentious extremes. If he demonstrates such sensitivity in his playing-then maybe you should consider it? A guy like that I would love to come in with a click track recording and ask him," hey biff, what tempo is this?".

I think the point there is that..you know how (assuming you don't have perfect pitch) you seem to remember music pitchwise in your mind like a tape recording? That tape recording should be in your head tempo wise too.

I'll give you an example. Frank Sinatra's "Just One of Those Things". Imagine it in your mind. Hum the famous instrumental intro in the same tempo and pitch. See how close you come

 

[Ed Fuqua]

how long does it take to practise a new tune as thoroughly as that? - I'm thinking weeks at least, more likely months?

I've been working on my 4 tunes for about 6 years now and I'm up to accent 3 triplets with moving rests. I only have about an hour a day to practice though.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

For many of us who have grown up listening to swing, bop, the motown/atlantic stuff and a whole lot of other north american pop music feeling the backbeat is not an issue and practicing only on 2 & 4 is of limited value. Sure those are the "feel" beats but for us bass players 1 & 3 are the "money" beats.

Funniest thing you ever said (at least here) was "You don't ever hear anybody say 'Where's 2?'"

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Like saying.. pretty good for a gurrl...

Exactly.

you probably have to consider the source there--that person is obviously taking it to pretentious extremes. If he demonstrates such sensitivity in his playing-then maybe you should consider it? A guy like that I would love to come in with a click track recording and ask him," hey biff, what tempo is this?".

I'd love to see you do that as well.

I think the point there is that..you know how (assuming you don't have perfect pitch) you seem to remember music pitchwise in your mind like a tape recording? That tape recording should be in your head tempo wise too.

Agreed. Excellent point, especially for a piano player.