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Micro Amp Head Suggestion / Solution Idea

SOUTH PAW

SOUTH PAW

May 31, 2015
275
342
Arizona
#1
Got this idea after reading through a recent thread on comparing micro sized amps, where the OP had a set of requirements for meeting his needs - must be as small as possible, enough power, XLR DI, and an effects loop. He was using a multi effects pedal and wanted to bypass the preamp for that last one. That was the main problem with the smaller micro heads. Not enough room for the send and return jacks.

First, most of the responses were that they either always plugged in through the front input, and it wasn't important, or they didn't mind having a larger semi-micro amp head that gave them that option. Also was mentioned ( Agedhorse ) to use the aux in to bypass the preamp eq.

So, this got me thinking, why couldn't they ( amp designers ) just add a toggle switch to bypass the preamp / eq? ( I have a Carvin BX500 that has a switch to bypass the graphic eq, but not the preamp ) With so many buyers interested in using these for a powered pedalboard type of setup, it would make the Elf sized pocket amp that much more versatile.

If I remember correctly, there was another thread asking why there weren't more bass amp companies making just a class D mini power amp? and the answer was, it's just not cost effective enough for such a nitch market. Well, wouldn't an added toggle switch bypass to an existing design make that more cost effective? Or are the recertification costs that high?
 
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#4
The aux in provides this feature, though it could be done with an
additional switch. I really haven’t seen anybody ask for the feature this way however.

Many amps function identically to a straight power amp (with some added gain if needed) by using the aux input or effects return. Since the demand is probably 100 to 1 for a full featured amp over a power amp only, economies of scale greatly favor the full amp format with the option to use as a power amp,
 
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#5
So, the aux in option would be the closest thing to what I was suggesting for a pocket sized amp without an effects loop. The only thing that concerns me with that is when it's a 1/8 inch jack which is pretty common, and not 1/4 inch. Kind of a weak connection.

I must admit, when I heard you suggest that in the other thread, It was news to me and a few others, including the OP, that you could use the aux in that way. If nothing else, hopefully more micro amp - without an effects loop - users will be aware of this option to bypass the preamp
 
#6
SOUTH PAW said:
So, the aux in option would be the closest thing to what I was suggesting for a pocket sized amp without an effects loop. The only thing that concerns me with that is when it's a 1/8 inch jack which is pretty common, and not 1/4 inch. Kind of a weak connection.

I must admit, when I heard you suggest that in the other thread, It was news to me and a few others, including the OP, that you could use the aux in that way. If nothing else, hopefully more micro amp - without an effects loop - users will be aware of this option to bypass the preamp
Click to expand...
Correct, and agreed. IMO 1/8” jacks are not robust enough for stage use and all products I have designed have always used 1/4” jacks for this reason.
 
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#7
I can't really get myself behind that whole idea.

My pedalboard is set to provide a good and workable sound for FOH. They usually have to set gain, then find that one resonating frequency around 100Hz and apply a notch filter there and they're done. I've taken care of HPF, LPF and compression already and my EQ settings are fine tuned to work well with PA systems.

That sound does not necessarily work through my amp, though. Which is absolutely no problem, because my amp has an EQ - which I usually use to marry the cabinet to the room. Those changes are not meant to be sent to FOH, and by sending DI from my preamp, they won't arrive there.

On top of that, my "regular sized" Class D head (Tonehammer) fits into my gig bag, weighs next to nothing and is absolutely no issue to carry around. Any smaller and I'd probably loose it all the time.
 
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#8
SOUTH PAW said:
Got this idea after reading through a recent thread on comparing micro sized amps, where the OP had a set of requirements for meeting his needs - must be as small as possible, enough power, XLR DI, and an effects loop. He was using a multi effects pedal and wanted to bypass the preamp for that last one. That was the main problem with the smaller micro heads. Not enough room for the send and return jacks.

First, most of the responses were that they either always plugged in through the front input, and it wasn't important, or they didn't mind having a larger semi-micro amp head that gave them that option. Also was mentioned ( Agedhorse ) to use the aux in to bypass the preamp eq.

So, this got me thinking, why couldn't they ( amp designers ) just add a toggle switch to bypass the preamp / eq? ( I have a Carvin BX500 that has a switch to bypass the graphic eq, but not the preamp ) With so many buyers interested in using these for a powered pedalboard type of setup, it would make the Elf sized pocket amp that much more versatile.

If I remember correctly, there was another thread asking why there weren't more bass amp companies making just a class D mini power amp? and the answer was, it's just not cost effective enough for such a nitch market. Well, wouldn't an added toggle switch bypass to an existing design make that more cost effective? Or are the recertification costs that high?
Click to expand...
Was a tone hammer too big??
 
#10
SOUTH PAW said:
...

So, this got me thinking, why couldn't they ( amp designers ) just add a toggle switch to bypass the preamp / eq? ( I have a Carvin BX500 that has a switch to bypass the graphic eq, but not the preamp ) With so many buyers interested in using these for a powered pedalboard type of setup, it would make the Elf sized pocket amp that much more versatile.

If I remember correctly, there was another thread asking why there weren't more bass amp companies making just a class D mini power amp? and the answer was, it's just not cost effective enough for such a nitch market. Well, wouldn't an added toggle switch bypass to an existing design make that more cost effective? Or are the recertification costs that high?
Click to expand...

The 'Pure' button on GR One heads do just this:

ONE – GRBass

www.grbass.com www.grbass.com

"Through the “PURE” switch you can exclude filters and equalizer and have a completely flat sound to be combined if necessary with an external equalizer"

IIRC Ashdown had or has an amp with a similar bypass feature.

Why it's not popular I'm not sure, but between the ability to use the effects loop / aux in, or simply setting EQ flat (which I do understand is not always 'flat' depending on the amp), perhaps it's just not a priority and/or the demand just isn't there.
 
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#12
el murdoque said:
I can't really get myself behind that whole idea.

My pedalboard is set to provide a good and workable sound for FOH. They usually have to set gain, then find that one resonating frequency around 100Hz and apply a notch filter there and they're done. I've taken care of HPF, LPF and compression already and my EQ settings are fine tuned to work well with PA systems.

That sound does not necessarily work through my amp, though. Which is absolutely no problem, because my amp has an EQ - which I usually use to marry the cabinet to the room. Those changes are not meant to be sent to FOH, and by sending DI from my preamp, they won't arrive there.

On top of that, my "regular sized" Class D head (Tonehammer) fits into my gig bag, weighs next to nothing and is absolutely no issue to carry around. Any smaller and I'd probably loose it all the time.
Click to expand...
I understand your use case is much more common. That was the response of many in the thread I referred to, and only the OP's insistence on a certain criteria and use - have a pocket sized amp that has no room for, and doesn't provide an effects loop - to tap in to the power amp for use with a multi effects pedal (becoming more common) that I considered the idea.

I personally don't have a problem with just adjusting my amps to a flat setting when using my pedalboard, but the OP and others, especially with the TE Elf, wanted to bypass the compressed gain structure, while still holding to the smallest amp possible. A nitch group for sure. That's why the idea of a switch for that use seemed like an easy solution.
 
#13
SOUTH PAW said:
If I remember correctly, there was another thread asking why there weren't more bass amp companies making just a class D mini power amp? and the answer was, it's just not cost effective enough for such a nitch market.
Click to expand...
How about the Demeter Minnie 800D. 3.5 pounds, 800 watts, 10″ x 6″ x 2″.

1726164364691.png
 
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#15
Jeff Scott said:
I've never owned a micro amp that didn't have send/return jacks on it (three Walter Woods, two Markbass, and one Aguilar). Even the Jad Freer SISMA amp I checked out recently has them.
Click to expand...
Not usually missing in anything other than the smallest micro amp heads, although, there are exceptions. I have a Carvin BX250 that doesn't have them, and it's probably larger than all those you mentioned.
 
#16
Stingray5 said:
The 'Pure' button on GR One heads do just this:

ONE – GRBass

www.grbass.com www.grbass.com

"Through the “PURE” switch you can exclude filters and equalizer and have a completely flat sound to be combined if necessary with an external equalizer"

IIRC Ashdown had or has an amp with a similar bypass feature.

Why it's not popular I'm not sure, but between the ability to use the effects loop / aux in, or simply setting EQ flat (which I do understand is not always 'flat' depending on the amp), perhaps it's just not a priority and/or the demand just isn't there.
Click to expand...
Okay, not non existent. So who knows if it might become a more common feature. I would think it would be more versatile than just a mini power amp, without the preamp built in option of using it like a regular amp head as well.
 
#18
SOUTH PAW said:
Not for me, no. Part of what was kind of funny about that thread was, everyone kept suggesting the OP add increasingly larger amp heads to his chart showing the dimensions of all the micro amps. It got to the point where I was waiting for an Ampeg SVT to be on there.
Click to expand...
If we are at a point where a tone hammer head is too big then I don’t know if we can survive
 
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#19
Stranger Danger said:
If we are at a point where a tone hammer head is too big then I don’t know if we can survive
Click to expand...
I don't think quantum design to go smaller will go so far as to make all the existing size class D micro heads obsolete. Much larger tube heads are still presently being produced and sought after, and will continue to be. Large power amp / preamp / power conditioner / tuner rack setups, not so much.
 

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