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Double Bass Mics over $1000

Jim Dedrick

Jim Dedrick

Jim Dedrick
Nov 8, 2016
339
545
Ridgely, MD
#1
Ive been shopping around for a new bass. So far I have found several options that deliver the kind of tone I was hoping for and way under budget. I suppose it is a bit of a buyers market right now. I’m thinking that the additional dollars could go to a nice mic. Last few years I have been blending a realist lifeline with an ATM 350 into an AI Clarus. It’s been working pretty good and depending on the room, or position with drums, I may blend more piezo than I like.

Reading lots of threads and am curious about Schoeps CMC6 MK41. Other than the cost it appears that most folks here seem to think it is as good as you can get for both live and studio. Studio looks like a real good option. I think it also would be a good option for concert halls. I’m not so sure about jazz clubs. Looking at pictures it looks like setup for live performance might take a little effort. A few questions for those that have tried it:

Do you find the size or weight cumbersome or needing extra time to set up?
What did you use to mount it- H-Clamp?
Any issues with cymbals getting picked up?
Are you doing any blending and, if so, what with?
Have you tried a Xlson or other mic and how did they compare?

Thanks for any feedback
 
#2
I have the CMC6 with an MK4 capsule—not 41—but love it:

Do you find the size or weight cumbersome or needing extra time to set up? Nope! Once you find a position you like, it's relatively easy to recreate the same sound.

What did you use to mount it- H-Clamp? Yup!

Any issues with cymbals getting picked up? Not so much—it's more dependent on where I stand in relation to the drums. If the top of my bass faces the cymbals, they reflect into the microphone.

Are you doing any blending and, if so, what with? A bit with my pickup (full circle), roughly 70/30 in favor of the mic, using the Grace Felix. Always check the phase to make sure everything is cool.

Have you tried a Xlson or other mic and how did they compare? Nope!

In brief, I love the microphone setup. It takes a bit of getting used to because of how accurate it is, but my gosh is it wonderful!
 
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#3
The Schoeps CMC6 is a killer! Buy it. I also have the Mk4 and love it. I do not use the C clamp but use a microphone stand. Having the mic on a stand keeps me anchored, facing one direction, which helps me keep bleed, especially from drums, to a minimum. I run both mic and pickup into an Acoustic Image Clarus 2R and blend to taste depending on venue. A small, intimate gig with no percussion might get 100% mic where a big, loud place needs more of the pickup. The only other SDC I use these days is a Telefunken ELA M260. Honestly, the Telefunken sounds better with my bass but it's not very portable being a tube mic with an external power supply so I don't take it out much.
 
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#5
bcamp said:
The Schoeps CMC6 is a killer! Buy it. I also have the Mk4 and love it. I do not use the C clamp but use a microphone stand. Having the mic on a stand keeps me anchored, facing one direction, which helps me keep bleed, especially from drums, to a minimum. I run both mic and pickup into an Acoustic Image Clarus 2R and blend to taste depending on venue. A small, intimate gig with no percussion might get 100% mic where a big, loud place needs more of the pickup. The only other SDC I use these days is a Telefunken ELA M260. Honestly, the Telefunken sounds better with my bass but it's not very portable being a tube mic with an external power supply so I don't take it out much.
Click to expand...

I use a matched pair of Telefunken M60/m61s and they track wonderfully on double bass. FET so no hassles with the big box. Same capsules as your M260. OP could buy one body plus the Omni and cardioid capsules for flexibility—- about $1K

there’s also a supercardioid capsule for this mic. Lots of options!
 
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#6
Good luck with your tone quest Jim. I just want to add that I'm only using mics these days for those "special" gigs that need the added tone/detail and, of course, for recording. I've had a couple of sound guys (sound guy trainees?) rudely grab my CMC6 during quick stage turnovers while I was casing my bass and I freaked. I've been very satisfied with my overall tone since I stared using an Ehrlund EAP pickup with the Ehrlund preamp for almost any semi-loud to loud gig. The EAP tone is always great and I've found it much easier to dial into the room than trying to blend a signal chain. I can't remember the last time I used a mic on an outdoor festival stage. However, the mic is always in the gear case for "just in case". Have fun!
 
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#7
The Schoeps MK41 is a "killer"-mic..:) I checked it out twice and I was always deeply impressed... but I'm not sure, how it will work in "loud" live-situations. If I had the money, I would go for it because of the impressive sound and to complement my other mics ;) but for live situations I would also use an additional PU. In "louder" situations I use an Ehrlund in combination with a Grace Design Felix and mix it more or less with a Remic Red, I use otherwise. The Remic is also a really fine mic, which does "not only" work live.
For recordings I'm over and over again impressed and very satisfied by my Brauner Phantom Classic, which is simply a great mic!..:)
 
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#8
LaFaro01 said:
The Schoeps MK41 is a "killer"-mic..:)In "louder" situations I use an Ehrlund in combination with a Grace Design Felix and mix it more or less with a Remic Red, I use otherwise. The Remic is also a really fine mic, which does "not only" work live.
For recordings I'm over and over again impressed and very satisfied by my Brauner Phantom Classic, which is simply a great mic!..:)
Click to expand...

This is a stellar combination it sounds wonderful, in fact I only need the Remic for concert halls where I want to have a more detailed sound and mainly run the Mic FOH. Schoeps has a new amplifier for the MK41 that's a miniature version of the CMC6, designated

as the CMC1 and although I've not used one I'm sure it's exceptional. Personally, I feel that the new Remic DB 540, REMIC D540 CLASSIC Microphone for Double Bass - REMIC Microphones(see Adam Booker's thread in this forum), will get you very close to the Schoeps at a fraction of the cost. The difference between the two

mics being that the MK41 is a super cardioid and the Remic is a very small omni placed under the tailpiece. Just my take however, I have both of the Remic DB 5400, they mount and dismount so easily and sound incredible. Just my take however.











 
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#9
dkziemann said:
I have the CMC6 with an MK4 capsule—not 41—but love it:

Do you find the size or weight cumbersome or needing extra time to set up? Nope! Once you find a position you like, it's relatively easy to recreate the same sound.

What did you use to mount it- H-Clamp? Yup!

Any issues with cymbals getting picked up? Not so much—it's more dependent on where I stand in relation to the drums. If the top of my bass faces the cymbals, they reflect into the microphone.

Are you doing any blending and, if so, what with? A bit with my pickup (full circle), roughly 70/30 in favor of the mic, using the Grace Felix. Always check the phase to make sure everything is cool.

Have you tried a Xlson or other mic and how did they compare? Nope!

In brief, I love the microphone setup. It takes a bit of getting used to because of how accurate it is, but my gosh is it wonderful!
Click to expand...

How close do you mount MK4?
 
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#12
One of the things I keep meaning to drop into these discussions of great mics and their applicability in these contexts is that guys like Larry shop for basses with a certain sound in mind. I bought a bass from Larry once and had a conversation about this. I think he buys basses that are big sounding and loud but also, I don't know if there is a word for it but Mic'able. My little Contrabassetto is amp-able pickup-able, sounds frickin great with a pickup and decent with a mic blended in. But Larry's basses sound fantastic mic'd. Period. How they respond to a pickup is probably (even if he is sometimes forced to use one) not part of his equation. So his equation is 1. Bass that can make the sounds that he wants to mic 2. mic. 3. elevated powered full range speaker 4. no compromise. It is totally stellar to do. But not my world, I don't play on those stages, people talk when I play a lot, the drummers I play with are right next to me in a tight space (generally) they may still be in need of sensitivity training, electric piano (ugg) etc.
What I am saying is, that wonderful Larry mic sound that all of us love so much and envy and want, is not the mic by itself, it is the whole thing including the way he plays (check out in the SCO duo above or in the other thread how he uses his middle finger to walk so that he never inadvertently mutes the full resonance of his notes they last right up until the next attack ..killin)
Honestly I would just go out and sell a bunch of stuff and get the Damn MK41 and use it always but it ain't just the mic. That said there are a lot of great basses and players out there who could make this kind of setup work, but unfortunately few of us get to play on the concert stages (regularly) where this set up shines.
 
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#13
flatback said:
One of the things I keep meaning to drop into these discussions of great mics and their applicability in these contexts is that guys like Larry shop for basses with a certain sound in mind. I bought a bass from Larry once and had a conversation about this. I think he buys basses that are big sounding and loud but also, I don't know if there is a word for it but Mic'able. My little Contrabassetto is amp-able pickup-able, sounds frickin great with a pickup and decent with a mic blended in. But Larry's basses sound fantastic mic'd. Period. How they respond to a pickup is probably (even if he is sometimes forced to use one) not part of his equation. So his equation is 1. Bass that can make the sounds that he wants to mic 2. mic. 3. elevated powered full range speaker 4. no compromise. It is totally stellar to do. But not my world, I don't play on those stages, people talk when I play a lot, the drummers I play with are right next to me in a tight space (generally) they may still be in need of sensitivity training, electric piano (ugg) etc.
What I am saying is, that wonderful Larry mic sound that all of us love so much and envy and want, is not the mic by itself, it is the whole thing including the way he plays (check out in the SCO duo above or in the other thread how he uses his middle finger to walk so that he never inadvertently mutes the full resonance of his notes they last right up until the next attack ..killin)
Honestly I would just go out and sell a bunch of stuff and get the Damn MK41 and use it always but it ain't just the mic. That said there are a lot of great basses and players out there who could make this kind of setup work, but unfortunately few of us get to play on the concert stages (regularly) where this set up shines.
Click to expand...


The quality of the bass is likely to be a huge factor. I have experimented with mics, but never found results satisfactory for live work. I played in loud environments with an amp. Too much bleed from the cymbals and too much interaction with the amp.

I think having a loud and powerful bass would be very helpful if you want to run a mic. The biggest problem with mic'ing an upright bass is the low acoustic volume the instrument puts out. The mic will pick up whatever sound reaches the capsule. If the sound of the cymbals is louder than the bass, there is very little you can do to fix the problem without degrading the sound of the bass. And it's not just the direct sound of the cymbals you need to worry about. The front panel of the bass is highly reflective so the sound from cymbals will hit the panel and bounce back into the front of the mic. This can create a effect that is sort of lick flanged cymbals...really nasty.

The sound coming from the amp can also cause problems. If the sound from the amp approaches the acoustic volume of the bass at the mic capsule, sound quality is degraded. Also if there is enough gain, a feedback loop can form between the amp and the mic. I believe a feedback loop can also form between the amp and the bass's body that tends to degrade the sound quality and change the decay characteristic of the notes. Having a loud and powerful bass should help with the first problem, but it may prove to be a liability with the second problem, but I think that may be more of factor when you are using a contact pickup.

The last bass I used professionally was 7/8 Lakeburg Baer. Another bassist had the instrument commissioned for the organization and it was a cannon acoustically. The bass seemed to have thin panels and was very resonant.

The same qualities that made the bass a powerful acoustic instrument made it challenging to amplify. I used one of the original Realist pickups at the time, and it worked pretty well on the previous bass I played. I probably should have tried a bridge mounted pickup on the Lakeburg Baer, because the tone with the Realist was overly resonant in the low mids and no amount of EQ could tame the problem.

I passed the Lakeburg Baer off to an extremely talented colleague. He went down the rabbit hole trying different pickups and also mics. He bought an AMT S25B, which sounded fabulous when he played solo. It was not possible to use much of the mic in his amp without getting feedback, and the bleed from the cymbals made the signal totally unusable IMHO. He tried blending the mic with various pickups using a D-Tar Solstice, but it was not long until he sold the mic.

Eventually my colleague and I moved to another band. He continued flipping pickups and eventually settled on the Ehrlund EAP. I tried his bass with this pickup and it was fabulous. I also mixed him on a couple tours and it sounded great. Definitely the best contact pickup I have ever heard.
 
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#14
flatback said:
...... So his equation is 1. Bass that can make the sounds that he wants to mic 2. mic. 3. elevated powered full range speaker 4. no compromise. It is totally stellar to do. But not my world, I don't play on those stages, people talk when I play a lot, the drummers

I play with are right next to me in a tight space (generally) they may still be in need of sensitivity training, electric piano (ugg) etc.What I am saying is, that wonderful Larry mic sound that all of us love so much and envy and want, is not the mic by itself, it is the whole thing including the way he plays (check out in

the SCO duo above or in the other thread how he uses his middle finger to walk so that he never inadvertently mutes the full resonance of his notes they last right up until the next attack ..killin)Honestly I would just go out and sell a bunch of stuff and get the Damn MK41 and use it always but it ain't just the mic.

That said there are a lot of great basses and players out there who could make this kind of setup work, but unfortunately few of us get to play on the concert stages (regularly) where this set up shines.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's just the way it is for most of us. While I played a mix of venues, before Covid 19. The last concert I played this year was last at the Sheldon Concert Hall. I used the Ehrlund EAP, Grace Felix and a Powered MAS 1/8. I have a recording of that concert

and it sounds really good, no drummer though. Since then it's been Assisted Living homes and a couple of neighborhood driveway concerts. Even using the Remic's on those gigs seems like overkill. Larry is a special player, on a very high level. He's generally got a really good house P.A.

to support the Schoeps. That's something that most of us only experience occasionally. Nice work if you can get it. :)
 
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#16
and they play VERY sensitively to quiet houses.
I once fell in love with a big blond bass at Stein on Vine in Hollywood, that had that fabulous big wide open mic-able sound (but was like butter to play), I had $1500 and it was 3 large. It was owned by Jesse Murphy, who lowered the price some to help me out, but someone else snapped it up... I remember hanging with Gary who wanted me to stop playing it and get the hell out of his shop, but that bass was so compelling. If I'd a bought that bass I'd be playing a MK41 and to hell with anything less.
 
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#17
A local shop here in St. Louis had several bigger basses over the years and they sounded fantastic, but “the one that got away” was a Voit and Geiger (Pancake) Bass
ala Richard Davis. It was really easy to play and smaller. Much like your Spada Contrabasetto. Sometimes good things come in small packages
 

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