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Double Bass Mid 1800s Tyrolean flat-back?

lowfreqgeek

lowfreqgeek

Mar 15, 2010
6,545
8,641
Tijeras, NM
#1
My luthier, Mike Olivola, called me about a mid-1800's Tyrolean flatback he has in his shop. The original neck has been broken and repaired at the heel, and a heel block was fitted at some point. Mike put on a new high-grade ebony board and fixed a few cracks, but it's otherwise in great shape, and since the heel block has already been added, that makes future repairs a little easier.

42" mensure, and it feels REALLY good. The bass is pretty dark sounding. Even with brand new Spiros, it's got a very dark, but defined sound. Great low-end, but not out of control. Very focused and punchy. Very little brightness, but a lot of fullness in the mids, and a lot of growl. It has a very woody sound. The D and G strings remain full all the way up the neck. It's not all that loud, but I think it would record REALLY well. It seemed to open up a bit more with the bow, and the Spiros sounded really nice under the bow.

I think the asking price is around the $7k mark. I'm highly tempted to go for it, but there is the issue that I've been on furlough for a long time (doing contract work now), and my main upright gig of the last 2.5 years has just ended. That said, I can probably get a good chunk of the cash I need out of my Carved Romanian and my Shen SB200.

Any thoughts on these basses? This would be my first foray into "old" basses. My Shen SB200 has been a fantastic bass, and I really don't NEED to change, but the Tyrolean certainly has some appeal. It also has more bottom than my Shen, which is something I've wanted for a while. That said, the Tyrolean may be better suited to jazz and acoustic situations, whereas the Shen has been a workhorse for louder amplified situations.

Anyway, advice is appreciated!



2016-02-18 14.59.31.jpg 2016-02-18 14.59.45.jpg 2016-02-18 15.01.42.jpg
 
#2
Lots of unknowns here, and the blurry photos don't help a whole lot.

I can't really see, but it looks like the bass fell and badly damaged the upper back because it was made without a neck block. How well was it repaired? It doesn't look great from what I can see.

Is the overall size of the bass physically comfortable to play?

Does it have a real bass bar, or an integral bar?

How tall is the bridge, and what is the neck projection? You'll want a bridge that's about 7" tall and 25-30mm of neck projection or it could be a pig to play arco.

The plates and ribs are probably much thinner and more delicate than either of your current basses, which is one reason it sounds the way it sounds. Are you prepared to deal with the upkeep?

Most importantly, when you played it, did the bass beg you to take it home and love it forever?

Old basses can be amazing. They can also be costly nightmares. I've had both kinds.
 
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#5
kungfusherrif made some great points here

its definitely a good deal on a cool bass, and when the sound and vibe hit you like that theres nothing like it- i remember when my bass did it to me.

if you can manage to keep your shen as a backup you may want too- old basses are fragile and there are a lot of occasions where you won't want your good old bass comming with.

as a side note, my giant shen bass has that similar vibe you described- with new spirocores there was none of that "spiro" sound, that sizzle we all know. just a round, deep, punchyness that it sounds like this bass has as well. i was very happy with evahs on that bass, as per my recent string thread i think when the bass and string have a similar voice they seem happy together. or maybe its just me.

i say go for it!
 
#6
I had a nice chat with Mike Olivola about this bass a couple of weeks ago when me met up in Arizona. He knows that I have a soft spot for older flat backs on the larger side of 3/4. It seems to have a lot of the good stuff, a reasonable string length, medium build weight, moderate and gentle top arch. It would be more conservative in dating it, though. It seems more consistent with a 1890-ish style of build and tuning machines. It isn't the prettiest girl at the dance, but Mike seems to have a good nose for turning up good sounding basses at reasonable prices.
 
#7
I have a very similar bass, which oddly enough, Mike Olivera worked on about ten years ago. It is still blockless. It is a very beautiful sounding bass to my ears, and easy to play. But in my case, it shows years of mistreatment (I usually say it fell off the back of a pickup truck). It was repaired many times with little visual aesthetic care. Since I now do my own repair work, the thought of taking off the top, if it were needed, scares me enough to leave it at home. But... it looks to me that the bass you're considering doesn't now have those issues. It might be wonderful.

Steven
 
#8
Just a quick update - I spent the morning with Mike, the Tyrolean, my Shen, and my Romanian bass (which Mike was repairing). The Tyrolean is definitely the bass to beat! Full, punchy, round sound with good clarity and very little sizzle. Louder than the Shen, with more fundamental. The Shen has a very pronounced mid-range, but less fundamental. Mike cut a new soundpost for it, which actually brought out quite a bit more bottom, but still not as much as the Tyrolean.

Since Mike is headed out of town for a week and didn't want the bass sitting in his shop, he asked if I'd like to hang on to it till he returns next weekend. So we'll see how it does over a week of normal use. He's a smart guy...
 
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#10
Shortly after getting the Tyrolean home on Friday, I had to drive about 3hr to my in-law's house where I spent the weekend, and then today brought my wife and kids home from their visit. Naturally, within 20 minutes of being home, I subjected my wife to the Tyrolean vs. Shen and her jaw just about dropped open after 3-4 notes... Then she accused me of knowing that it would win her over if I could just get her in the same room with it. :D

Phase 1 complete.
 
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#12
Hey I have the twin to your new acquisition, and I have had it for 20 years. All the things that go wrong with these basses, really do go wrong, the overstand is crap which makes bowing a pain and they are thin and fragile. But oh how I love to play that bass. It sounds even and warm and punchy and amplifys damn well and sings up high and doesn't fart out below. I really want to have a neck block put in, and then I would have to have the hole fixed and the seams redone and the back made right and the bottom reglues and the shoulder built up. But as my luthier said, "it's been stable for 150 years what makes you think it is in such need of repair?"
 
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#13
lowfreqgeek said:
Shortly after getting the Tyrolean home on Friday, I had to drive about 3hr to my in-law's house where I spent the weekend, and then today brought my wife and kids home from their visit. Naturally, within 20 minutes of being home, I subjected my wife to the Tyrolean vs. Shen and her jaw just about dropped open after 3-4 notes... Then she accused me of knowing that it would win her over if I could just get her in the same room with it. :D

Phase 1 complete.
Click to expand...

WAF (wife acceptance factor) is important.
 
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#14
flatback said:
Hey I have the twin to your new acquisition, and I have had it for 20 years. All the things that go wrong with these basses, really do go wrong, the overstand is crap which makes bowing a pain and they are thin and fragile. But oh how I love to play that bass. It sounds even and warm and punchy and amplifys damn well and sings up high and doesn't fart out below. I really want to have a neck block put in, and then I would have to have the hole fixed and the seams redone and the back made right and the bottom reglues and the shoulder built up. But as my luthier said, "it's been stable for 150 years what makes you think it is in such need of repair?"
Click to expand...

Your luthier is correct on one level; however, when the Olde Tyrolean I had was damaged, the repairs included a new neck and block-the bass sounded MUCH better, and was definitely more solid feeling. The new owner has had a complete overhaul including bass bar and re-arching, and I heard there was even more improvement. The bottom line is that he obviously likes the bass enough to invest money he'll probably not recoup on eventual sale.
 
#16
SAlcott said:
Your luthier is correct on one level; however, when the Olde Tyrolean I had was damaged, the repairs included a new neck and block-the bass sounded MUCH better, and was definitely more solid feeling. The new owner has had a complete overhaul including bass bar and re-arching, and I heard there was even more improvement. The bottom line is that he obviously likes the bass enough to invest money he'll probably not recoup on eventual sale.
Click to expand...

I've not played an original un-blocked Tyrolean, but I can say that this one I have with a block feels really solid and sounds great; rich, full, and very even all over, with an entire bottom octave that seems to be missing from my other basses. I think it probably could use a new bass bar and re-arching at some point, but I'll talk to my luthier about that when he returns at the end of the week. The E-side of the top is definitely sunk in a few millimeters compared to the G-side. Otherwise, it's in solid mechanical condition.
 
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#17
Michael Glynn said:
Sounds like a great bass. If you get it, I hope to hear it someday. If you're trying to sell the others, be sure to talk to Mark at UNM to see if he has any students in the market.
Click to expand...

I'd love to hear you play it, Michael! If I get it, you're welcome to it next time you're in town if the logistics work out.

Mark is a great idea. I need to talk to him about some arco lessons, anyway. Thanks for the idea!
 
#18
lowfreqgeek said:
Since Mike is headed out of town for a week and didn't want the bass sitting in his shop, he asked if I'd like to hang on to it till he returns next weekend. So we'll see how it does over a week of normal use. He's a smart guy...
Click to expand...

Ah, the old 'Puppy Dog Sale' (I just found this lost puppy and the owner is nowhere to be found. I'm going to be out of town for the weekend, would you mind watching the puppy for me just over the weekend?"

How many happy dog owners acquired their new 'best friend' in a way similar to this? I know my son did.

Nothing wrong with that though - he loves his dogs to pieces (and they love him back unconditionally). I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out the same with your new puppy, er, make that bass.
 
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#19
I had one of these rehabbed by Nick Roubas here in LA (completely taken apart, new back etc). It took about year of experimenting with strings, tailpiece, endpins etc etc, and for it to decide whether it wanted to be a solo bass or an orchestra bass (ha!) but it was well worth the time and effort and compares successfully with basses 2 or 3 times more expensive. They do need TLC but are worth it, I think. I love mine.
Louis

PS meant to add the attached
 
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