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Midi Control/Perfect Synth??

E

Embryodead

Inactive
Nov 30, 2005
1,447
1
Providence, RI
www.myspace.com
#1
I'm looking into adding some sort of midi pickup (either roland or yamaha) onto my bass.

Now i'm pretty positive i would need a midi converter of some sort (Yamaha G50?)

My question is using my mac, say using Reason or any synth AU/VST would my playing be directly transposed (i hit an E it plays an E) through the software and out my sound card?

Has anyone here gone this route? I play for an Electronica band i would like to fit in the mix a little bit more with multiple synth sounds.
 
#3
my question is how does it sound anyone try? the majority of the software based synths sound amazing when using a midi/usb keyboard, some of them (such as Absynth) sound better and have a lot more versalility to say a Virus or Karma.

I'm most of you guys in this subforum would agree that buying dozens of pedals is the only possible way to get your tone, and i know a lot of people invest into microsynths but to me 300 dollars for one setting (i wouldn't adjust settings live ever.) is a waste. the GI-20 which is Rolands midi convertor goes for about 300 dollars + 180 for the GK pickup.

I think this is possible project for me, something to get more use out of that mac i carry around to shows ;-)
 
#4
It really depends on how serious you are about using synths. Most bass players would be fine with a Bass Micro Synth or something similar. I use a Korg G5 bass synth myself. The next step up would be getting the Midi pickup and GR-20 to trigger outboard synth modules. With the latency and delay involved I think you would get better results from a cheap Midi keyboard. $500 investment for something that is easly beaten by a $75 keyboard seems a bit silly to me. If you're playing electronica and have good sounds from your laptop but still want to use a bass to trigger them you should check out www dot starrlabs dot com. They make really good Midi controllers with no latency problems. They're a bit expensive but they are the best solution I've found for what you're trying to do. I'll be saving for one in the next year or two once I've finished tying up loose ends on my electric bass rig. In the mean time I'm just triggering my Se-1x with a keyboard controller. What kind of budget do you have to work with?
 
#5
Not really on a budget just shooting out ideas.

I've heard the GI-20 because it's midi > usb has very low latency.

But yeah i agree about a 75 dollar keyboard being better but i don't play keyboard, and i personally don't like the limitations being stuck behind one (please don't say get a keytar lol..)
 
#6
I have tried to hook my GR-20 to my Clavia Micro-Modular synth module and for some reason it produces much more garbage (false triggering, delays) than the built-in sound on the GR-20. I suspect there might be a lot of tweaking to do for such things to work properly. And I'm not very good at tweaking MIDI stuff. Also I don't really need the synth sounds from the MM.

But. I don't think the GI-20 is faster/better than the GR-20. I see no reason why it should be. But I haven't tried one.
 
#7
So, I thought a MIDI pickup/converter was the only was to go on this too, until I discovered a whole mess of VST plugins that convert direct audio to MIDI signals. This of course is only handy if, like me, you use a laptop live. Anyway, there are a few available, with the most popular being WIDIsoft (just search for WIDI in google). I have not had much luck with the trial version, but I've had pretty good results with another plugin; supereel 2.0. It s a freakin' CPU hog, but my system allows it, so it works, albeit not extraordinarily gracefully. After it's set up properly (not really the easiest thing), it works the best of all of about 5 plugins I've tried. And, best yet, near zero-latency and almost perfect tracking. The thing is, I can only get it to work really well with just one of my synth VSTis, which is really weird. It tracks perfectly with that synth alone, and almost won't track reliably AT ALL with any others I've tried, and I can't figure out why yet. Anybody have any ideas?
Anyway, to use supereel you also have to install something called MIDIox, which essentially creates a bunch of virtual MIDI ins and outs on your computer that run in the background. They show up in midi device dialogs and the like in host programs, like Ableton Live. You have to rout the supereel's output to one of these midi "yokes" created by midiox, then in your host program, select that yoke as the input for your MIDI instrument. Kinda complex, but the manual with supereel covers it (in somewhat broken english). Both midiox and supereel are free, by the way. If you have any other Q's just lemme know. Good luck, and if you have success with another plugin, please let me know!
 
#9
Spfairchild said:
So, I thought a MIDI pickup/converter was the only was to go on this too, until I discovered a whole mess of VST plugins that convert direct audio to MIDI signals. This of course is only handy if, like me, you use a laptop live. Anyway, there are a few available, with the most popular being WIDIsoft (just search for WIDI in google). I have not had much luck with the trial version, but I've had pretty good results with another plugin; supereel 2.0. It s a freakin' CPU hog, but my system allows it, so it works, albeit not extraordinarily gracefully. After it's set up properly (not really the easiest thing), it works the best of all of about 5 plugins I've tried. And, best yet, near zero-latency and almost perfect tracking. The thing is, I can only get it to work really well with just one of my synth VSTis, which is really weird. It tracks perfectly with that synth alone, and almost won't track reliably AT ALL with any others I've tried, and I can't figure out why yet. Anybody have any ideas?
Anyway, to use supereel you also have to install something called MIDIox, which essentially creates a bunch of virtual MIDI ins and outs on your computer that run in the background. They show up in midi device dialogs and the like in host programs, like Ableton Live. You have to rout the supereel's output to one of these midi "yokes" created by midiox, then in your host program, select that yoke as the input for your MIDI instrument. Kinda complex, but the manual with supereel covers it (in somewhat broken english). Both midiox and supereel are free, by the way. If you have any other Q's just lemme know. Good luck, and if you have success with another plugin, please let me know!
Click to expand...

Ah, see this might actually work for me, since yes i already do bring a laptop around to all of my gigs. I have an account on Audionews i never thought of looking for something that would turn a Instrument signal into Midi without a converter. I'm already always hooked up to my M-Audio Fast Track so i wouldn't need any extra hardware.

I'm going to look into it right now and let you know my luck.

Edit: Then i was shot down realizing Super Eel is windows ;-p
 
#10
check out the Burr Johnson videos at Terratec using the Axon
Invalid Link Removed

I'll be the first to admit it tracks better on guitar with a pick but you can with practice get it to track quick with a bass. Transposing is no problem. Also if you use a PC, it's easy to transpose midi in real time.
 
#11
The best way I have found is RMC piezo pickups and Axon converter. Rolands do not handle low string well at all, especially low B, but with tweaking on the Axon you can get pretty good tracking on the B and E, but the other string are pretty much no latency, well other than the computer/soundcard.
I've been lusting after a Ztar for ages especially after I sold my Synthaxe, yeah I actually had one.
Good luck,
Dirk
 
#12
Dirk Diggler said:
The best way I have found is RMC piezo pickups and Axon converter. Rolands do not handle low string well at all, especially low B, but with tweaking on the Axon you can get pretty good tracking on the B and E, but the other string are pretty much no latency, well other than the computer/soundcard.
I've been lusting after a Ztar for ages especially after I sold my Synthaxe, yeah I actually had one.
Good luck,
Dirk
Click to expand...

There's some rumble that the Yamaha EZ-AG isn't too bad. And that Yamaha might be in the works with a pro level instrument. We'll see. I don't think it will compare to a Ztar but you never know.
 
#15
Embryo-
Glad you found something that works. I don't think I've tried melodyne; gonna have to give that a shot. I also forgot to mention earlier that with my particular instrument, strings, touch, etc., tracking is WAY WAY WAY better when playing above the 12th fret on any string. So I just set the octave on whatever synth I'm controlling to still be in the right range, usially -1, and play all the notes above the 12th fret. In fact, the ones I'm using don't really work at all further down the neck. Off to find melodyne...
 
#16
Dirk Diggler said:
Funny you mention the EZ-AG seamonkey, I placed an order for an EZ-EG. If I don't love it when it shows up maybe I'll make a new body/setup and create my own franken EZ. :)
Dirk
Click to expand...

Very cool, I almost bought one, but now I look forward to seeing your results first. One thing I heard on the EZ-EG was that the string muting gets in the way. Seems like the single mute on the EZ-AG would be tougher to get use to.
 
#19
Melodyne is EXTREMELY power piece of software.

It is absolutely amazing to what it can do. I'm talking the recreation of any line perfectly in pitch and harmony is just a copy and paste away.

Tempo and Pitch changes are perfect. Right now i'm trying to find a feasable way to use it live. I've only dipped into being able to record and playback a recorded file midi > synth. i've heard it's possible and works just as well live.

and from what i seen and heard this thing works with almost every instrument known to man. I download a DVDR of a tutorial on it, and just running through it shows the power..when i finally learn how to do it real-time i'll post a full guide for everyone step by step. If this turns out to be for synth sounds for bass i'm going to ditch all my pedals ;-p
 
#20
Hey Emryo-

Alright, I read the manual that comes with Melodyne, hooked up to Live as a rewire client AND through the Bridge VST thing, and I can't get it to work at all. Can you describe how you're using it, and what settings for midi in/out, etc.? The other weird thing is that in the audio-to-midi dialog inside Melo, the real-time box won't let me check it for some reason - it'll show a check when I click it, but as soon as I let go, the check disappears. Weird. Sounds like you're having a lot more luck with this! As far as ditching the pedals; my sentiments exactly. That's why I got the laptop in the first place, and I've been so incredibly pleased with the results. So much more versatility, upgradability, and portability - I don't miss those 15 or so damn little boxes at all!
:D
 

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