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Midi converter - what's best now?

project_c

project_c

May 8, 2008
1,592
1,870
London, UK
#1
Did a search on this and I'm getting lots of old threads, I'm wondering what's out there now, and whether anything works really well yet.

Requirements: bass converted to midi data in real time with no latency, for live performance. I don't need sounds or velocity sensitivity, as I will be triggering visuals via midi, not audio - but I do need close to zero latency, going into a Mac.

Things I've seen:
- Roland system - only works with Roland gear apparently
- Sonuus - bad reviews, latency
- Jam Origin midi bass app - latency is intolerable
- Industrial Radio Bass - great but price is ridiculous, also you need to buy their bass
- Industrial Radio Fretsense - incomplete info on website does not fill me with confidence

Please let me know if you have suggestions or advice, thanks!
 
#2
Roland and other guitar to midi will work better if you use higher tuned guitar strings.
It doesn't take as much time to analyze a higher pitch. You want to get the fundamental and it takes a while to determine this with a bass string.
Change the strings, then pitch it down in Midi
 
#3
Fast, clean MIDI conversion from an actual bass remains quite a challenge.

Back in the 90s, I got good tracking from the Yamaha G-10, which was a dedicated MIDI guitar controller with all .016" plain strings and tracked using ultrasound along the string to detect fretted position. The pickups were only for detecting note on/off and velocity, not pitch.

I think Starr Labs still makes custom dedicated controllers that can be tapping only or use picking also, but they are very pricey. The You Rock Guitar is a low brow alternative.

Otto
 
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#4
The Industrial Radio bass looks to have much in common with the old Yamaha unit, in the ability to have really fast tracking per string with tracking of slides, mutes, etc.

Plus it has the huge added benefit of being an actual bass with mag pickup output.

Doesn't sound like you are looking for this, but be aware that many synths (especially these days) are meant to work only with keyboards and perhaps drum controllers and don't easily adapt to multi-channel play with a mono mode synth voice per channel, but that is essential to have MIDI performance that tracks string instrument performance gestures. Doing a slide, only to hear a retriggered note on each fret is really lame.

Btw, even the You Rock Guitar can do slides and individual channel per string, if you want and have a synth that can use that.

Otto
 
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#5
Thanks guys, I'm afraid those options don't work as I will need my actual bass to play actual bass - my signal would be sent 2 ways, one straight to an amp, the other to trigger visual stuff via midi. Sounds unfortunately like the Industrial Radio is the only viable option, however the price is incredibly prohibitive.
 
#6
I would look for an old Roland GR system. You should find a controller and hex p/u for around $200.00 or less. Latency is par for the course with pitch to midi but you might have better results triggering visuals than audio. Or at least it may be less noticeable. Good luck. :)
 
#11
+1 to a floor pedal. Driving audio-to-MIDI from bass is one of the hardest available ways to go, b/c of the pitch sensing delays seamokey mentioned in post #2.

I wouldn't want to depend on the conversion recognizing those pitches accurately. (Bend your trigger note and you risk mis-triggering your visuals.) But the bigger problem would be picking unique bass notes to trigger each particular visual scene. The pitches you pick as triggers need to make musical sense at the moment you want to trigger a particular visual scene, but those pitches can't appear in your playing when you *don't* want to trigger a scene change. (Not an insurmountable problem if you have an engineer—or even a MIDI pedalboard—to cycle through MIDI scenes or to toggle off note-to-MIDI, but if you had those options you probably wouldn't be considering controlling visuals from your bass.)
 
#12
project_c said:
Thanks guys, I'm afraid those options don't work as I will need my actual bass to play actual bass - my signal would be sent 2 ways, one straight to an amp, the other to trigger visual stuff via midi. Sounds unfortunately like the Industrial Radio is the only viable option, however the price is incredibly prohibitive.
Click to expand...

I've just tried the FretTrax system, which made it's debut at Summer NAMM last weekend. It's quite incredible; the latency is inconceivable. It can be added to most basses. I'm currently having it installed on my Spector Euro 5 LX. Here's a video of my first time trying it (NAMM quality audio):
 
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#13
wow thanks again, that FretTrax thing looks great, and I hadn't even considered the gesture / pedal option, which makes a lot of sense. I'm going to look through all the links and have a proper read-up on all this stuff now, I'm sure there's something here that'll be perfect.
 
#15
Main problem for me with the switch based midi controllers is I do a lot of string bending. The pitch to midi plays the best, but there is some latency and false triggering. It's not too bad these days and you train yourself to deal with it. It's really mainly You got to practice it, you'll get use to it.

Roland VB99 does physical modeling, which is really good for sounds. The the pitch to midi from Roland isn't the best but it is usable.

Some of the new keyboards are starting to offer polyphonic aftertouch, finally, again. And so string bending like playing a minor chord then bending the third up is possible (again). The tilt and orientation sensors are also cool. Like in the Livid Guitar wing.

An experimental alternative is iFretless bass. I set it so the display doesn't rotate, then I can finger it justs like a real bass. Slides, and vibrato are great. It sends out core midi, and simple to play other synths in IOS or on a PC, wireless too. It's actually a great tool when you think of some riff and want to work it out and all you have is your phone.
 
#18
You could also just wire the frets. Looks at keyboard matrix switching, use diodes to isolate the fret, and multiplex the strings. Or put FSR or membrane switches between the frets, or on the back of the neck.

Really nothing but a switch sounds likes it's needed. No musical information needs to be analyzed. Livid brain JR Livid Instruments can convert the switch closes to midi.
 
#19
project_c said:
The visuals are not lights, they are small moving image loops that I'd like to trigger based on note value ideally, so the suggestions are in the right ballpark.
Click to expand...

Same principle of selectivity probably applies. If you'll be triggering visuals for special moments of emphasis, then tracking/triggering becomes more important, *and* it becomes increasingly important to be able to trigger selectively. (The emphasis'll be somewhat dissipated if every played pitch triggers a visual loop, or even if a visual is triggered every time you play a particular pitch, if it's common in that song or in your set.)

OTOH, if you *do* want to trigger a loop with every played note, then perhaps some glitchiness in tracking/triggering would be a good thing.
 
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#20
I used to do real time audio to MIDI via a plugin on my PC, which I used to use in place of pedals for live performance. At that time. WIDI was the king of A2M, but I think there may be a new sheriff/sheriffs in town? If you're using a computer as part of your rig, you may want to check it out. You can route the MIDI signal that results out of your audio interface to control lighting and other MIDI gear.
 

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