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Mini 0r Micro Amps.... I Must Be Missing Something?

#202
JimmyM said:
While true that margins are tight, I've spoken to a lot of backline providers about micros, and every single one of them have told me that nobody ever requests them as backline. Didn't make sense to me at first, but then I realized that most people who use micros will take them with them on fly dates and just use a provided cab. But nobody's asking for them, otherwise the bigger backline companies would have them.
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This really does seem to be the case. If the amp is tiny and light weight, why not bring your own along. That way you know exactly what you are getting every night, and the hassle factor is very small. Not so with any speaker cabinet.
 
#207
pkstone said:
Could anybody tell me, in less subjective terms, what "tight" means when referring to an amp? Everyone seems to know, but I'm in the dark...
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For me, 'tight' in an amp is a good dose of lower mids and upper bass, and a reasonably controlled deep low end (not super extended, and not in too high of a ratio with the upper bass) so that you get that feeling of 'meat' on the initial note attack.

However, others must be using that term differently in this thread, since the two 'least tight' heads I've ever played are the DB750 and the Mesa M6/M9, which both are capable of massive, deep, full low end (the opposite of tight to me). I believe those were used as examples of lead sleds having a more 'tight' low end, and that I don't get.

When someone says 'tight' (most of the time) it is similar in the low end to the concept of 'quick' feeling up in the midrange and upper midrange. It has to do with the immediacy of the attack at the beginning of the note... that 'bap bap bap' sort of thing down low that has some 'space between the notes' sort of feel. It makes you feel like you have very good 'plucking hand control'. It's like the bottom tonality of a Ken Smith bass or other basses with two big soapbars positioned way back toward the bridge... very immediate and 'articulate' at the initial attack.... no slop allowed.

It has little to do (IMO and IME) with power amp design, and much more to do with preamp voicing and hi passing.
 
#208
It's in the attack of the note IMHO. It's hard for me to put into words, but tighter amps have a certain feeling in the attack that makes you say "that sounds tight." Maybe picture a snare drum with the heads tightened up as far as they can go and compare it to one with the heads looser. The one with the looser heads won't be as sharp and crisp on the attack as the other. I think the best example of tightness in bass amps is the Mesa line of traditional solid state amps. I did a couple gigs on a cruise ship last year with a Mesa M6 combo, and it's got a really hard and quick treble response, which is what tightness sounds like to me. YMMV, but that's how I define it.
 
#210
pkstone said:
Thanks very much. I think I understand now. It sounds to me that tightness connotes a note envelope and onset timing that is clean (as played) and not affected unduly by the amp.
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+1... not compressed, not overly extended... lots of dynamics, little to no boom or flub. A lot of that is also the 'mix and match', since cabinets can also have similar 'issues and strengths' down low.

For example, the Genz Shuttle is one of the least 'tight' amps (by my definition) as I've played... big, fat, bloomy, tubey low end. Play that head through a tight 'fridge' cab or a cab like the Baer ML112 or Berg AE410, and it yin yangs into a simply beautiful 'tight but full' low end, with lots of immediacy to the attack with zero harshness in the mids.

Lots of ways to get the the finish line! An external hi passing filter like the FDeck can also work wonders with an unruly amp or cab down low.
 
#212
dincz said:
How much of "tight" might be attributed to having loads of headroom - allowing the full initial attack through without clipping/limiting/compression?
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That is, of course, part of it, along with driver capability. If you are hitting the amp's limiting circuitry and/or your cab craps out below 80hz, there won't be much 'tighness' happening:p

Likewise, even if you have a ton of headroom, if your cab has no low mid bump, and you don't have the EQ capability to dial it in, things can get a bit mushy regarding the initial note attack. That does not mean that is bad sounding at all. Some contexts really can benefit from a massive fundamental low end tone with no lower mid rise... like dub or whatever. However, more often than not, it sounds like a PA with badly voiced sub-woofers !
 
#214
KJung said:
Likewise, even if you have a ton of headroom, if your cab has no low mid bump, and you don't have the EQ capability to dial it in, things can get a bit mushy regarding the initial note attack. That does not mean that is bad sounding at all. Some contexts really can benefit from a massive fundamental low end tone with no lower mid rise... like dub or whatever. However, more often than not, it sounds like a PA with badly voiced sub-woofers !
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This is my problem (if you wan't to call it that) and the reason why I run the mids full up on my PF-500 @ 220hz. I even dial back the bass and highs to accentuate that tone. Then I send post-EQ DI to the front of house and the sound guy doesn't EQ me for some reason because I sound "Fat". Hmmm..

I just need an on-board bass preamp and I bet you I'll be happy. Or something with as much EQ as a SM 9.2. I really desire more note attack as well, the PF-500 seems tubby in those regards.
 
#215
joelb79 said:
This is my problem (if you wan't to call it that) and the reason why I run the mids full up on my PF-500 @ 220hz. I even dial back the bass and highs to accentuate that tone. Then I send post-EQ DI to the front of house and the sound guy doesn't EQ me for some reason because I sound "Fat". Hmmm..

I just need an on-board bass preamp and I bet you I'll be happy. Or something with as much EQ as a SM 9.2. I really desire more note attack as well, the PF-500 seems tubby in those regards.
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The SM9.2 is voiced exactly with that in mind. Good, real hi passing to control the deep low end (and with the variable lo filter, it actually varies the hi passing along with the deep bass boost... fantastic). The bass control is shelving with a steep slope and a start point at 80hz, and then you have a low mid semi-parametric to boot.

It is a bit thin and bright set 'neutral', but a small amount of bass boost, a bit of upper mid cut, and then flavoring of the low end with the variable hi pass/bass boost, and ther you go... tight and fat:bassist:

Very similar to the F500, with more ooomph and even more EQ control.

With a cab like the 15/6 you are using, the Max 9.2 is a dream!
 

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