Double Bass Mini EUB (34 inch Scale EUB) in Concert Band?

[Oscar Stern]

Hi, I’ve played the piece above multiple times in an orchestral pops section.

While I don’t have experience with this particular instrument, I’ve had a few EUBs.

In my experience, they are a tad too “sharp” sounding to produce a bowed sound in an orchestral setting.

It’s a bit akin to using an electric guitar where you are supposed to be playing acoustic.

In terms of if it’s the right call for you, I’ve enjoyed playing these instruments. I find them to be very fun. If you think that you can make it work effectively in this setting and your director agrees, you can go for it.

I would likely use a regular upright myself.

That's the older version, this version has a special pickup to eliminate harshness

 

[Oscar Stern]

I think many will disagree with this.

For concert band I typically used both bass guitar and upright. For big band I used bass guitar, upright, and electric upright. All three instruments had a distinctly different sound and feel.

I would have liked to use the electric upright for some vocal ballads in concert band as well. I actually did on one or two tours, and it screwed up my intonation on upright when I was functioning as part of the bass section. In other words, when my volume was lowered to blend into the section Switching between upright and fretted bass guitar did not degrade my intonation.

In big band I aways functioned as the bass in a rhythm section. So my instrument was always loud enough for me to hear and correct intonation on the fly. We played a pretty wide variety of music. The bass guitar was for more rock or funk oriented charts. The upright was for tradition big band arrangements. The electric upright was for more modern jazz(y) material.

I do remember playing solely the electric upright on a big band show where space was very limited. I made it work, but it felt like a compromise to me. We had a reception after the show and every audience member I talked to said the bass sounded both appropriate and good. They also thought it looked cool...but were not certain what to call it.

Why not ditch the double bass and just use a UB805 Mini EUB? It's like a 1/4 size EUB

 

[Altitude]

I have an Ergo EUB, which is probably a technically inferior or simpler instrument to this one. There’s a gig I’ve done a few times in Dallas that I fly in for on Thursday, two rehearsals and two shows, back on Sunday. It’s a wind ensemble gig, and some of the music is written for upright bass.

It works. It’s not an upright bass. I EQ it to sound as tubby as I can. An upright in that situation would have a pickup anyway, would run through an amp on stage, and the sound reaching the audience wouldn’t sound like an upright either.

I’m not taking that EUB into the studio to try to record it as an upright, and not even taking it into a small jazz club where people in the audience can hear the acoustic sound. It’s a big band, and the EUB sounds fine. Plus, people seem to want to ask questions and talk about it.

 

[Wasnex]

Why not ditch the double bass and just use a UB805 Mini EUB? It's like a 1/4 size EUB

If you are happy with the UB805 that's fine. But you seem to be on some sort of mission to try and convince others the UB805 is something it's really not. Although I would enjoy demoing the UB805, I am completely confident it would not satisfy my expectations for upright bass. That's not to say I wouldn't find it desirable for other reasons, but not as a proxy for upright.

 

[SLO Surfer]

Why not ditch the double bass and just use a UB805 Mini EUB? It's like a 1/4 size EUB

Because the UB805 mini doesn’t sound like a double bass.

 

[Oscar Stern]

If you are happy with the UB805 that's fine. But you seem to be on some sort of mission to try and convince others the UB805 is something it's really not. Although I would enjoy demoing the UB805, I am completely confident it would not satisfy my expectations for upright bass. That's not to say I wouldn't find it desirable for other reasons, but not as a proxy for upright.

It's sound is kinda in between a Fretless Electric Bass and an Acoustic Upright Bass due to it's areo-silk pickup that picks up the vibrations of the whole instrument, so it's a curious middle ground.

 

[Oscar Stern]

I did not know anything about that bass. Never heard of it. If the sheet music says, “string bass” at the top then I’d play a string bass. If it says electric bass then I’d play an electric bass. If it’s a recording session of the polar express piece you shared, I’d prefer a traditional upright bass over any EUB for that piece. If it’s a live show, I’d most likely choose either electric or upright depending on the overall requirements of all songs balanced against each other.

I’ve never heard an EUB that sounded like a real upright bass. They sound like fret less electrics to me. So I’ve never seen the point. But I’m glad you enjoy yours!

This Mini EUB sounds in between a Fretless Electric Bass and an Acoustic Upright Bass which is a curious middle ground sound due to it's areo-silk pickup.

 

[Oscar Stern]

Because the UB805 mini doesn’t sound like a double bass.

Ub805 has an Areo-silk pickup to imitate an Upright Bass sound

 

[Oscar Stern]

Why not convert all double basses to have a 34 inch Scale by cutting their bodies and necks shorter?

 

[Wasnex]

Why not convert all double basses to have a 34 inch Scale by cutting their bodies and necks shorter?

Longer strings tend to sound better. Larger acoustic chambers tend to be louder and have more cushion.

In my experience, 1/4 uprights tend to sound pretty awful. Most of the 1/2 and smaller basses I have come across produced sort of an unpleasant midrangy honk. Around 2005 I cam across a 1/4 that had a more balanced and full tone, but it sounded boxy. I believe the asking price was almost $4,000. They had a really fabulous small 3/4 Bohemian bass for about the same price. Should I bought it .

I might consider a 5/8 but I doubt I will ever come across a 1/2 or smaller than appeals to me.

 

[LaFaro01]

Reading this thread I come to the point to say... sorry... I don't understand, what's your aim!?!?! If the "little EUB" works for you... very fine.. take it and play it! I wouldn't use for some reasons mentioned before and I like (most) acoustically imperfect double basses for this "imperfection", but nobody must agree with this...
(Bass) Guitars sound and play differently to double basses in many respects, but if you like it, take it.. so what?!?! But in no way it's a combination of "the best of both instruments"...

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

As a reminder to all DB forum members: if you come to the conclusion that another member seems to be trolling the community, either intentionally or otherwise, there is no need to engage. Voting with one’s feet is always a viable option.

 

[SLO Surfer]

This Mini EUB sounds in between a Fretless Electric Bass and an Acoustic Upright Bass which is a curious middle ground sound due to it's areo-silk pickup.

I had to go listen to demos of this bass to see/hear for myself. Sorry. The thing still sounds like an EUB to me, but perhaps with more clackiness than others, which is even more undesirable. I personally find nothing curious about this instrument.

 

[Francois Blais]

As a reminder to all DB forum members: if you come to the conclusion that another member seems to be trolling the community, either intentionally or otherwise, there is no need to engage. Voting with one’s feet is always a viable option.

Another reason to enjoy using the "Ignore" button...

 

[eyvindwa]

I had to go listen to demos of this bass to see/hear for myself. Sorry. The thing still sounds like an EUB to me, but perhaps with more clackiness than others, which is even more undesirable. I personally find nothing curious about this instrument.

I have a similar instrument, an NS Design Omni bass (34" upright). While it for sure does not sound like an acoustic upright, it can sound quite pleasant played arco with the right technique, EQ and typically some reverb. It might not be your thing still, of course, but I really enjoy mine. Demos on YouTube etc can be very hit and miss, and often don't showcase the full potential of the instrument. (Disclaimer: I have never played or heard this Ibanez upright in person.)

 

[GretschWretch]

Why not convert all double basses to have a 34 inch Scale by cutting their bodies and necks shorter?

We've covered this ground before. This isn't your first thread along these lines. And 1/4 size DBs already have a 35.25 scale. Why bother to cut anything?

 

[GretschWretch]

I have noticed a few folkies in my area, who started out as solo acts, if they added a bass it sometimes was an EUB. But still only very few basses in the act(s). For me, if the EUB cannot sound like this, it's better left at home.

 

[Oscar Stern]

We've covered this ground before. This isn't your first thread along these lines. And 1/4 size DBs already have a 35.25 scale. Why bother to cut anything?

Oh wait a minute I got a better idea. The UB805 with it's 34 inch scale is a curious middle ground between a 1/4 Bass and a 1/8 Bass, basically like a 3/16 Size Bass. What if Ibanez made an Acoustic version of that instrument UBAC804/805? AC means acoustic

 

[Don Hergert]

@Oscar Stern, as someone who also has some personal obsessions with the double bass and with other instruments, I can understand how a pet idea that is different doesn't get a lot of acceptance and that it can be frustrating. But, if it's important enough to the person developing a project based on such an obsession, that person has to prove it as truly being useful, better than whatever the standard is, and really worthy of acceptance...

This is just one of many threads you've posted in, talking about the same thing with a few different leans. You're talking about your ideas to a large group of people who are using what would be considered the standard. Many of these people are very highly educated, have decades of professional double bass experience and are fluent at producing beautiful music with their standard double basses.

Talking is not enough. Theory, specifications and design are also not enough. Debate will not convince anyone. And no one else is going to prove it for you. If you want people to believe in your concept, you will have to demonstrate it in real life yourself, and that demonstration will have to include the ability for side-by-side comparisons of quality instruments.

I doubt that any serious double bass player has any doubts about double basses being hulking large instruments, difficult to transport, and always somehow in the way. That is in your favor. But until you produce a prototype demonstrating your concepts, you aren't going to convince anyone.

I would suggest, and would actually challenge you, to take a break on just talking about this and work on some prototypes that eventually can be used to demonstrate what you think. Your prototype will need to be fretless, bow-able, will need to be pizz-able and maybe slap-able, it will need to be functionally able to be played standing or sitting, played just as a double bass can be played, so that someone who is a professional double bass player can step in and play your prototype without having to change techniques or postures in order to accommodate any differences. And it will need to sound acoustically and amplified the same, in the same note ranges, as a standard double bass.

If you are successful, it will be something that people have tried to do, unsuccessfully, for about 450 years.

I wish you good luck with this!

 

[Oscar Stern]

@Oscar Stern, as someone who also has some personal obsessions with the double bass and with other instruments, I can understand how a pet idea that is different doesn't get a lot of acceptance and that it can be frustrating. But, if it's important enough to the person developing a project based on such an obsession, that person has to prove it as truly being useful, better than whatever the standard is, and really worthy of acceptance...

This is just one of many threads you've posted in, talking about the same thing with a few different leans. You're talking about your ideas to a large group of people who are using what would be considered the standard. Many of these people are very highly educated, have decades of professional double bass experience and are fluent at producing beautiful music with their standard double basses.

Talking is not enough. Theory, specifications and design are also not enough. Debate will not convince anyone. And no one else is going to prove it for you. If you want people to believe in your concept, you will have to demonstrate it in real life yourself, and that demonstration will have to include the ability for side-by-side comparisons of quality instruments.

I doubt that any serious double bass player has any doubts about double basses being hulking large instruments, difficult to transport, and always somehow in the way. That is in your favor. But until you produce a prototype demonstrating your concepts, you aren't going to convince anyone.

I would suggest, and would actually challenge you, to take a break on just talking about this and work on some prototypes that eventually can be used to demonstrate what you think. Your prototype will need to be fretless, bow-able, will need to be pizz-able and maybe slap-able, it will need to be functionally able to be played standing or sitting, played just as a double bass can be played, so that someone who is a professional double bass player can step in and play your prototype without having to change techniques or postures in order to accommodate any differences. And it will need to sound acoustically and amplified the same, in the same note ranges, as a standard double bass.

If you are successful, it will be something that people have tried to do, unsuccessfully, for about 450 years.

I wish you good luck with this!

An Acoustic version of the Ibanez Upswing that would be pretty Rad. The acoustic Bass VI has been a success because it sounds like a punchy acoustic Bass, let's hope the acoustic version of the 34 inch scale EUB goes well too.