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Minimalizing 60 cycle hum?

Hope I didn't imply that you did. I've got a Rocktron Hush pedal that I use sometimes when I have a bass that hums a lot, and I've used other noise gates and suppressors many times in the past. They do help, no doubt. But there comes a point where they do all they can do. Not a slam on the product by any means...it's just that the 60 cycle hum is a tough one to get rid of.
 
For sure Jimmy, a lesson I've learned all too well. I wasn't offended at all by anything you posted.

It does help but it's not all that I need to do. I need to fix the problem at the source. Through trying out all of my components and cables and hearing no reduction in hum, then playing through a battery operated headphone amp and realizing the hum was still just as strong, I have realized that since these basses hum a lot here and not in other places, that there's some airborne interference here that is causing the hum. The only thing left to do is to shield my basses. Unfortunately, I won't be able to do this for a couple of months.
 
For sure Jimmy, a lesson I've learned all too well. I wasn't offended at all by anything you posted.

It does help but it's not all that I need to do. I need to fix the problem at the source. Through trying out all of my components and cables and hearing no reduction in hum, then playing through a battery operated headphone amp and realizing the hum was still just as strong, I have realized that since these basses hum a lot here and not in other places, that there's some airborne interference here that is causing the hum. The only thing left to do is to shield my basses. Unfortunately, I won't be able to do this for a couple of months.

Ok. Hum lessons:

1. There are two kinds of hum: Electric and Magnetic. Electric hum comes from AC wiring and is eliminated by the usual copper shielding. The idea is to enclose all electronics in a water-tight conductive box. The box MUST be grounded to the output jack body. You can't totally do this, of course, (tops of pickups remain open etc.) but the closer you come the better. The usual test is that hum that goes away when you touch ground (strings) is Electric. Magnetic hum won't go away by touching ground.

2. Magnetic hum (also called single coil hum) is NOT stopped by shielding, although if you shield and reduce electric hum, it makes single coil hum less objectionable. It is only stopped by humbucking (cancelling) arrangements. These include dual pickups wired to cancel hum, or dummy coils. So a jazz bass with both pickups on full (or equal volume) bucks hum. A lone single coil pickup does not.

3. The hum source for magnetic hum is MAGNETIC which means things like transformers, lighting gear, ballasts in fluorescent lights, even the the power transformer in my combo amp is a pretty strong source. One way to stop single coil hum is simply to move away from the sources. This is also why hum is found at different levels in different rooms. Single coil pickup fans often move around the stage to try to find the spot of minimum hum.

4. Hum cancelling pickups use TWO or more coils in a single pickup so the magnetic hum fields are cancelled and don't produce a signal while the strings do. The problem with this is that the change in coils and picking up strings in more than one spot changes the tone. Even just adding a dummy coil will change the inductance (unless you mix it in electronically as Alembic does) and the tone. So if you want single coil tone from a hum-cancelling multi-coil pickup you have to make choices about how much tone change you will tolerate. (Some hum cancelling Jazz pickups are quite good, but not perfect)

5. And lastly if you can't get rid of hum, then one can use a noise gate, which in effect mutes the bass when the output is below a certain level. Personally I find the gating effect more annoying than the hum, but to each his own.
 
For sure Jimmy, a lesson I've learned all too well. I wasn't offended at all by anything you posted.

It does help but it's not all that I need to do. I need to fix the problem at the source. Through trying out all of my components and cables and hearing no reduction in hum, then playing through a battery operated headphone amp and realizing the hum was still just as strong, I have realized that since these basses hum a lot here and not in other places, that there's some airborne interference here that is causing the hum. The only thing left to do is to shield my basses. Unfortunately, I won't be able to do this for a couple of months.
Why not? If you have aluminum foil and some double stick tape, you can shield your bass.
 
Okay, well then I have a couple of questions in regards to shielding without soldering (as I have no experience with soldering yet, and was going to buy an iron soon and wait until I had enough experience to shield the bass properly):

1) I know a pickup can pick-up electrical hum. Can a wire alone pick up electrical hum as well or is it done solely through the pickups? Reason I ask is that I've seen lots of people actually shield the wire canals in between cavities as well, but this requires soldering. I would like to simply shield the cavities and run another wire through the canals creating conductivity through the cavities, but this would leave the pickup wires in the canals exposed.

2) Where exactly do I connect the final ground to? I was thinking of soldering it to the ground prong on the output jack, but obviously can't do this without soldering. Could it be connected to the bridge grounding wire?

NOTE: On my Squier fretless jazz, some hum goes away when I touch the strings/bridge, because I'm now grounding the circuit with my body, this makes me believe that the main ground on the bass isn't properly grounded in the first place. I feel like if the bass was properly grounded then it wouldn't need to pass through my body to get to ground. Also, my P Bass or Warwick do not lose hum when I touch the strings.

Here are some wiring diagrams for the two basses I'd like to shield. If anyone can point out where to connect the ground, that would be great.

Typical jazz schematic:
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And also, if I could also get some help with my Warwick Rockbass. Here's the Invalid Link Removed.

Thanks.
 
Because I generally use at least a little "growl" for a somewhat vintage sound, I never really noticed the the hum would returned while notes are being played. However, with my setup, the decimator completely eliminated hum in between notes (not playing) and "seemed" to lessen it while playing, but things like that can easily be in ones (my) head. Hope I didn't lead you in the wrong direction!

Just read this comment now as I guess I skipped it with it being at the end of the page.

The only reason I notice the hum coming back when I play is because of how bad the hum is in this house. And you certainly didn't lead me down a wrong direction. This thing is great. When I'm playing along to songs, I don't really notice the hum as much after changing lightbulbs and where I'm plugged into, but at least now the hum doesn't carry on in between songs, and it sounds better when I'm soloed too. This is a great tool for gigs IMO, but it also didn't cure the problem 100%. But don't worry. I bought it used, if I ever decide to get rid of it, I won't lose money. And the great thing about this house, is I know if I can get my basses to sound good here then I won't have to worry about sounding worse elsewhere.
 
1) I know a pickup can pick-up electrical hum. Can a wire alone pick up electrical hum as well or is it done solely through the pickups? Reason I ask is that I've seen lots of people actually shield the wire canals in between cavities as well, but this requires soldering. I would like to simply shield the cavities and run another wire through the canals creating conductivity through the cavities, but this would leave the pickup wires in the canals exposed.

Yes, wire can pick up hum, which is why most pickups use some kind of shielded cable. Just twist the pickup wires together if you can, and that will reduce the hum they pickup up. I wouldn't bother to shield the tunnels the wires run trough.

2) Where exactly do I connect the final ground to? I was thinking of soldering it to the ground prong on the output jack, but obviously can't do this without soldering. Could it be connected to the bridge grounding wire?

From the controls, or the shield? The ground from the pots goes to the output jack. In the Duncan illustration they didn't bother to draw that. Shields can ground anywhere. For copper shielding solder a wire to the copper foil and then to the back of one of the pots. You can't sold to aluminum, so you will have to stick some copper tape on it and sold to that. But if you are going to do that, then just use copper foil.



NOTE: On my Squier fretless jazz, some hum goes away when I touch the strings/bridge, because I'm now grounding the circuit with my body, this makes me believe that the main ground on the bass isn't properly grounded in the first place. I feel like if the bass was properly grounded then it wouldn't need to pass through my body to get to ground. Also, my P Bass or Warwick do not lose hum when I touch the strings.

You are not adding to the ground, you are grounding your body, which is reducing the noise. The problem is a lack of shielding.
 
... The ground from the pots goes to the output jack. In the Duncan illustration they didn't bother to draw that. Shields can ground anywhere. For copper shielding solder a wire to the copper foil and then to the back of one of the pots. You can't sold to aluminum, so you will have to stick some copper tape on it and sold to that. But if you are going to do that, then just use copper foil...

Thanks for you input. Very much appreciated.

In regards to the part I quoted above. I was thinking of instead of soldering, to just screw down a wire, making sure there is good a path of continuity, from the aluminum in the control cavity and splicing it into some wire. Can this be done, or do I have to solder?
 
Okay, well then I have a couple of questions in regards to shielding without soldering (as I have no experience with soldering yet, and was going to buy an iron soon and wait until I had enough experience to shield the bass properly):

1) I know a pickup can pick-up electrical hum. Can a wire alone pick up electrical hum as well or is it done solely through the pickups? Reason I ask is that I've seen lots of people actually shield the wire canals in between cavities as well, but this requires soldering. I would like to simply shield the cavities and run another wire through the canals creating conductivity through the cavities, but this would leave the pickup wires in the canals exposed.

2) Where exactly do I connect the final ground to? I was thinking of soldering it to the ground prong on the output jack, but obviously can't do this without soldering. Could it be connected to the bridge grounding wire?

NOTE: On my Squier fretless jazz, some hum goes away when I touch the strings/bridge, because I'm now grounding the circuit with my body, this makes me believe that the main ground on the bass isn't properly grounded in the first place. I feel like if the bass was properly grounded then it wouldn't need to pass through my body to get to ground. Also, my P Bass or Warwick do not lose hum when I touch the strings.

Here are some wiring diagrams for the two basses I'd like to shield. If anyone can point out where to connect the ground, that would be great.

Typical jazz schematic:
Thanks.

Shielding without soldering and use of aluminum foil. Note that a shield is a CONDUCTIVE box enclosing the electronics as best you can. All parts of this "box" must be connected to ground which means if you use several pieces of foil EACH PIECE must be connected to the next piece and the whole thing connected to ground. Best is as much as possible to use a single piece of foil folded to fit it all. With aluminum tape, the glue is not conductive (unless special tape is ordered) and thus EACH piece of tape must be connected to ground. Standard method is to run a wire from ground to a wood screw through the tape with a lock washer under the head to "bite" into the aluminum. The lockwashers with lots of tiny teeth are best. A wire runs from the screw to ground.

The problem here is you really don't get out of soldering because the ground wires from the tape pieces MUST be connected to ground and that almost always means soldering.

1. Yes wires pickup hum too but if you leave channels unshielded (but run a ground wire between pickup cavity shielding and ground) and twist pickup wires, hum pickup will be minimal. remember pickup cavity foil MUST be connected to ground or other cavity foil (which is grounded).

2. The correct place to connect all these grounds to is the barrel (outside) of the output jack. As you note there is a solder tab to do this. And typically there are wires from there going to be soldered to the backs of the control pots. This is all one solid connection and you can consider ground to be any place along there.

Note that in many basses a single grounding point is used which can be the jack body OR sometimes a screw is put into the wood with a solder lug where all grounds arrive. That common point then runs a wire to the jack.

Note that if you use a common ground screw you can avoid soldering by using crimp-on lugs on the ground wires that you put over the screw before you screw it into the shielding and wood. But you still have the problem of connecting to the jack ground.

Sometimes you can get around this. For example, in a jazz bass the jack can go through the metal control plate. Any conductive metal that the jack is mounted on (or presses against when mounting like say shielding foil will connect to that jack. So shielding a jazz bass with aluminum and no solder is rather easy because you coat the cavity with foil running it up over the lip where the control plate covers it. Now since the jack is mounted on the metal plate that now is ground and since that plate screws down and presses into to foil coming up over the lip at the screws, contact is made and no solder is needed. You just have to be sure that all pieces of aluminum are somehow connected together! This would apply to your Squire Jazz (which typically are not shielded well if at all)

In the diagram the primary ground is at the jack. Note that funny triangular symbol of several lines, THAT is ground. Note that this ground is shown around the bass, ALL those places should already be wired together. And that ground should also connect to your shield foil. Note solderless method above using foil clamped under control plate at screws. If the control plate contacts foil you do not have to worry about running extra ground wires to the jack or other grounds (back of pots). But you DO need to make sure (meter) that all foil pieces are connected to all other foil pieces!

A very quick and dirty Jazz bass Aluminum shield job can be had by getting some decent aluminum foil and a can of spray on glue ("art" glue like Scotch "spra-mount" or Borden equivalent). Coat one side of foil with spray glue to hold it in place so it doesn't vibrate. Form foil into cavity rubbing it down so glue sticks. run foil up over lip of cavity and trim to fit under control plate. Put control cover and controls back on with screws mashing foil to bass. Done. Don't even both with pickups yet. Try bass and check out any improvements. (should be dramatic with both pickups on full) If there is still hum that goes away or changes when you touch the strings with both pickups on full then you may need to shield pickup cavities next, grounding that foil to cavity foil with screws, lockwashers and wires. At that point there should be almost no hum that changes when you touch strings or ground (control plate, jack body, strings etc.)

Good luck!
 
Thanks BassBenj! That's some awesome advice. The Squier, which is currently my main player, should be easy.

I will have to figure out some way to do it with my other basses though. I have a Fender P which I'd like to do just for the hell of it, though it doesn't really need it, and I will have to find someway to do it for my Warwick... That bass is incredible, but the plastic access plate for the control cavity is not shielded and I feel like a lot of noise is coming in through there, especially since the rest of the bass has conductive paint in the cavities.
 
Another quick question. I just tried to unplug my bass and instrument cable to see what the general noise of the cab is and there's a lot of static (white noise or 60 cycle hum) coming through the speakers with the level at noon. When I bypassed the EQ it definitely dropped. I tried adjusting the setting which is set up to accentuate upper mids/treble and it did drop as well.

Clearly I'm focussing in these frequencies and this is not helping. Is there anything I can do, other than altering my EQ to help? Or will it just be there as long as my EQ is setup this way?
 
Computer monitors can cause noise issues too . I found this out while trying to record bass direct one day while looking at the computer monitor so , I moved around the room a little and the noise disappeared .