• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Minimizing vibration/volume in an crappy apartment

If nothing helps, you might consider changing to tuba or trumpet and communicate that to them.

... Or banjo. That'd do it for sure. :D

It sounds like the neighbors are pretty secluded. It makes me wonder if they are doing something in their apartment they shouldn't be...

Speaking of which, all a "support dog" needs is a doctor's order. A "service dog" is a special dog that has been trained to provide service, it requires training and a doctor's order. It's very possible that their "support dog" is validly licensed. And, in California, it's illegal for housing owners, including hotels/motels/rentals, to ask for details, all they can request is to see the license. Housing owners are required to allow "service dogs", but many either also allow "support dogs", or don't know to distinguish between the two.

NOTE: With research of more recent documentation it looks like housing owners may now be required to allow any kind of "assistance animal", which would include both "service dogs" and "support dogs". There may be other new state and federal rules and judgements that apply.
 
Last edited:
One idea for a platform, is a container with a bag of sand. Then some flat rubber on top for the endpin to stay on.

The sand will absorb a lot of energy.

Yes, older buildings have lower noise isolation. Newer buildings are better. Folks below will hear a lot more than folks above because of direct noise/vibration transmission through the building above-floor to below-ceiling. Best to be living on the bottom floor with no one below.

BTW, noise complaints are subjective. It's not just about volume. If people don't mind the sound, they accept it, if they don't like the sounds they file noise complaints. (ie music they like will not get complaint vs shrills and drills)

You have rights too, once you do your best to decouple the bass from the floor, and mute the top, you can simply ignore the complaints if they are unreasonable. The person below does not have the right to harass you about unreasonable noise conditions.

Does the bottom neighbour's dog bark or pee/poop on the grass? They are doing complaint worthy actions too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BassFalcon
Just saw this in another thread. Maybe it’d help you:

I have exactly the same experience with the Italian MK Studio EUB. The haptic sensation when playing it (even unamplified) is exactly the same as when I play my URB, minus the volume, of course. It’s a perfect practice bass. And yet, my downstairs neighbours told me they could hear the vibrations through the endpin even when I played unamplified. So we did a test, and what worked best was an inflated kid’s bicycle inner tube with a small 25 x 25 cm wood plate on top. This effectively killed the vibrations downstairs (at least in my building).
 
69726125380__2D6986CC-FA56-4032-B42E-E63AEEA91900.jpg



I could move, but I just got a new job so I need to save up for a bit before that is possible. Also, I have lived here for 6 years and it has only become an issue since this neighbor moved in. I would have to break the lease. Anyone can get a doctor to sign for a "support" dog....all that is is a way for people to abuse the fair housing act and not have to pay an animal deposit or look for a place that actually allows pets. There is no recourse in that matter. These complaints have happened when I'm playing as quietly as I possibly can, and with all of the things I listed in the original post. I've even measured myself with a decibel meter, and I cap out at 65dbs (which is about as loud as a washing machine). The only thing I haven't tried is the platform idea. Will assemble something by the end of this week and hopefully that resolves this. The reality is that it does not matter what the police think, if what I do----no matter what it is, is enough for a neighbor to complain----then I am in violation of that part of the lease.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BassFalcon
View attachment 4990714


I could move, but I just got a new job so I need to save up for a bit before that is possible. Also, I have lived here for 6 years and it has only become an issue since this neighbor moved in. I would have to break the lease. Anyone can get a doctor to sign for a "support" dog....all that is is a way for people to abuse the fair housing act and not have to pay an animal deposit or look for a place that actually allows pets. There is no recourse in that matter. These complaints have happened when I'm playing as quietly as I possibly can, and with all of the things I listed in the original post. I've even measured myself with a decibel meter, and I cap out at 65dbs (which is about as loud as a washing machine). The only thing I haven't tried is the platform idea. Will assemble something by the end of this week and hopefully that resolves this. The reality is that it does not matter what the police think, if what I do----no matter what it is, is enough for a neighbor to complain----then I am in violation of that part of the lease.

Maybe play on the bottom floor and then place a memory foam pillow under your endpin.

In the meantime, be sure to report any and all violations of any rule to the management by others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: longfinger
View attachment 4990714


I could move, but I just got a new job so I need to save up for a bit before that is possible. Also, I have lived here for 6 years and it has only become an issue since this neighbor moved in. I would have to break the lease. Anyone can get a doctor to sign for a "support" dog....all that is is a way for people to abuse the fair housing act and not have to pay an animal deposit or look for a place that actually allows pets. There is no recourse in that matter. These complaints have happened when I'm playing as quietly as I possibly can, and with all of the things I listed in the original post. I've even measured myself with a decibel meter, and I cap out at 65dbs (which is about as loud as a washing machine). The only thing I haven't tried is the platform idea. Will assemble something by the end of this week and hopefully that resolves this. The reality is that it does not matter what the police think, if what I do----no matter what it is, is enough for a neighbor to complain----then I am in violation of that part of the lease.


For sure try the platform.
I think a rubber base, with a plastic bin filled with sand, then a rubber square sitting on top of the sand, would work very well and be cheap to do. Other ideas presented in this thread will work well too.

(Consider, while home, playing beautiful music you know and refining the performance. Music that sounds good will get fewer complaints. Vomit exercises and the like with Arco... find a bridge somewhere to play under.. perhaps..)

Also the unit downstairs likely has an identical layout to yours. So during practice time, try to be in a room that the neighbour is not in. ie. 5-6pm, if he is watching tv while prepping dinner, don't be in your living room or dining room right above him, be in a bedroom.

Another thing, is a lot of noise does go though the main apt door and down the hall. Being in a closed room, like a bedroom, is better to contain the sound than being in an open concept kitchen-dining-living area.


The letter you posted does show that you have rights too.

Paragraph A writes of "excessive noise"
Paragraph B, says you can play from 9am to 10pm hours at "moderate volume". You can even play later 10pm to 9am at "low volume". These are left open to interpretation on purpose. 65dB is moderate , perhaps even low, volume. This is not excessive noise by most reasonable standards.


You can respond to the building director that you are in compliance of the noise situation. Invite him to come visit you and hear you play to evaluate the steps you've taken to be a good neighbour, if he wants to pursue it further.

I'm sure your lease and building rules mention how harassment is not allowed. Find that rule, quote it, and let your building manager know that your lower neighbour is now harassing you. His harassment is preventing your from pursuing your own happiness in your residence. The director of property management will need to take your complaint of harassment seriously, and bring it up with the downstairs neighbour.

Tip: in the rules and laws, generally, the more important rules are first, less important rules are later. Eg. if the no harassment rule is #12 and the noise rule is #34, then #12 is more important than #34 and your complaint of harassment takes precedence over his complaint of noise.

Add to that, you've put much effort into dealing with the sounds, and from your posts, he has put in no effort in dealing with his harassment.
 
Last edited:
Oops, I missed this part of your OP.

< I live on the second floor, and my apartment has 2 floors----I've only practiced on the top so as to not disturb the person below me. The person who complains lives on the left of me.>

So it's the person next-door and not the person below you. The floor decoupling, will help with the vibrations, not the sound. Ok, since the vibrations are the problem.

Try to be in a room that is not linked to your main door. Be in a bedroom or office room. Also remove things that might rub and vibrate against the wall. ie. wall panels, wall shelves, etc.

Another option: make friends with the person below you and if it is ok, practice on the lower floor instead of the top floor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Martin Spure
Good ideas mentioned before.

You can do two things to reduce acoustical output (but it also reduces the fun with your instrument):

A) get a rubber mute for your bridge.
A rubber mute reduces volume a lot more than orchestral mutes.

B) get some (closed cell) foam. Cut it to the shape of your f-holes and one more for each a bit larger. Glue them together and stuff it into your f-holes. With the larger ones you can easily pull them out and they cannot fall inside the bass body.

I would try the inflated tube under a platform for the endpin. Try not to inflate it too much but enough so it is stable. You might want to add some blocks, half the height of the tube under the platform in a circle to keep the tube in place.

If you need to play longer forte or fortissimo passages go outside. Anything else should be OK.
With the mutes even forte and a few bow strokes of fortissimo might be OK if you don’t play most of the time that way.

I also find it important that you didn’t get complaints when you moved in. So it is not a general problem of noise generation but of an individual noise reception.

Try all three noise reduction possibilities at once.
Invite the manager to show the noise level, show him the noise measurement and the noise reduction procedures you made and the acoustic result. Tell him you got the best advice from players in the worlds biggest double bass forum and that you did follow their best advice.
Also compare the noise level to a moderate volume level of an action film on TV by measuring that level too.
AFAIK, an old bell ringing telephone was about 60 dB.

Tell the manager that you either need to stop playing that instrument at home completely or need to ignore any further complaints.

Show the manager the contract that musical instruments in moderate level are allowed, so they should not be forbidden by a single resident.
Your time slot of 5 to 6 pm is very moderate, since the contract allows to play at the same level up to 10 pm.

And tell that since the resident refuses to communicate with you, it is not possible to find a time slot that would be acceptable for both, you and the complaining resident.

Tell him/her that if your neighbor is so noise sensitive, an appartement in a larger building is not appropriate for him/her, so he/she better should find something else.

BTW, trying other rooms or the other floor is a good idea. But only with all noise reduction measures you can use.
 
To state the obvious, since you have received a letter, you should respond in writing.

State that you disagree that you have violated the Rules and Regulations, as you are playing a single acoustic instrument at moderate levels during the allowed hours.
Express your willingness to work with th neighbor and management to explore possible muting/insulation, different locations, that might minimize the neighbor's perception.

If you do not express your denial in writing, the manager's letter may be viewed as establishing uncontroverted fact. Sorry about your situation. Lousy neighbors truly suck!
 
Update: I have been practicing for the past 5 days in my apartment. Haven't received any complaints since I stacked a slab of concrete on two pads + 4 vibration dampeners for an air compressor.

edit: This is also in conjunction with t shirts in the F holes, and rubber bass mute on the bridge. (which was all I was using before)
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0262.jpg
    IMG_0262.jpg
    1.3 MB · Views: 77
  • IMG_0261.jpg
    IMG_0261.jpg
    1.2 MB · Views: 70
Last edited:
Okay there’s a drum riser for isolating on you tube with platforms with tennis balls inbetween. Larger area might also diffuse more. BUT it’s about the isolation of the vibration. combined with muting

But the neighbor is sensitive and sensitized so any noise is disturbing to them.

I’d try ADDING noise to offset the musical pitches that are cutting though the wall. Run the washer, talk news TV on, and white noise machine (or playing through computer externals speakers). All at reasonable levels. Do that to acclimate them, no bass playing for a couple weeks. Then opposite wall from neighbors put the blankets in a corner on the walls. Face the corner with the bass, mute, and some isolation platform maybe with retracTed end pin. Bass on cushions. After that IDK.


I had a old lady neighbor and I swear she had taken up 70s r&b bass, and killing it. I knocked on the door at 2 am and asked “are you playing bass right now?” No, she just had a new boom box low volume by the wall adjacent my bedroom. Bass can really cut.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcox
On the subject of mutes, not all mutes are equal!
I got a mute from Lemur about 10 years ago called a "practice mute".
It's not like the torte mutes at all and is a seriously big and heavy lump of rubber.
The bass is barely audible with it on and I'd be surprised if anyone other than psychotic neighbour's would notice.
In fact it is so heavy that I am considering now ordering a proper torte mute to play in Orchestra when required.
 
I think an inflated tube under the concrete would decouple a bit better, but beyond that you did all what you can do to keep the vibrational emission to a minimum.

Anything else would forbid you to play that instrument and this would be a too hard restriction of your freedom.
Talk to your manager explain how you see the situation and that further complaints come from an overly sensitive neighbor, who needs a free standing house in the countryside to be not disturbed by noise.

If you can borrow a solid body EUB, try that for at least a week and see what happens then. Put it on the damped concrete too, to avoid vibrational transfer to the ground.
If you demonstrate that to the manager,
It would be obvious that your neighbor is the problem, not you.

You might even think to sue your neighbor because of a constant flow of complaints to your manager that is done without a reason. It is possible that he/she has a problem with you and wants to get you moved out independent of any musical noise generated. The musical noise might just be a good reason to argue without being a real disturbance.
Maybe even the first letter from your lawyer stops the complaints immediately.
 
Unfortunate update 2: Apparently it's not working, neighbor still making complaints.....
It seems that you've really exhausted your remedies.

I'd suggest talking to an attorney. Ultimately you may need to anyway if you intend to try to stay at this apartment. "Legal Shield" might be a good low cost option just to find out what your rights are, or what your rights are not.

Have you paid the last month's rent in advance? If so, you have at least that long to make decisions.