Mixers - Digital versus Analogue & Reliability

[MYLOWFREQ]

I use both digital and analog systems and both have advantages and disadvantages over each other.. the biggest advantage of digital is the instant recall and being able to be mobile. But I too feel safer going analog still.

 

[40Hz]

You can’t touch a digital board for flexibility and the joys of being able to store presets. That said, it’s important to keep in mind something I used to tell my IT clients:

It’s been said that even a broken watch is tells the correct time twice per day. But that was before the advent of digital watches.

Think of binary numbers. It’s one or zero. On or off. That’s how a computer works. Its hardware either works - or it doesn’t. It’s on or off. There’s no in between.

Digital is economical and reliable. It does a lot, and for not a lot of money compared to analog electronics. And most times it works really well. But unlike a lot of non-digital electronics, it doesn’t “degrade gracefully.” When it breaks, it breaks all the way. It doesn’t limp along like an old radio receiver or telephone does most times. I just goes down hard - and stays down. And if a reboot or hard reset doesn’t clear the problem - it needs to be repaired.

 

[imdkoz]

I've been using a Mackie DL1608 with an iPad and wireless router for over 3 yrs. Haven't had any issues other than having to reboot the iPad once for losing connection. The good thing about the Mackie and I'm sure the others as well, is that the settings stay even if the iPad can't connect.

 

[neddyrow]

i switched to powered speakers and a digital mixer.

sold the mixer and went back to a yamaha analog mixer.

i would get too stressed out having to quickly reboot the ipad or mixer in between songs when it was on the fritz - which was way more frequent than i wanted to deal with.

i do agree that it is the future and the way everything is going but, i'm going to wait until the tech is a little more reliable.

 

[mikeyjm2]

Both bands I'm in use the same Line 6 Stagescape M20d. No problems to report so far but I do have to admit it makes me nervous thinking about it going down. I still like my old analog Yamaha board.

 

[s0c9]

Used both.. own both !!
Last band ran an X32R (IEM rack) and Producer, and I've use A&H, Soundcraft, Behringer, Presonus and Yamaha digital consoles and own an X32R, Presonus 16:4:2 and an A&H GL2400.
Workflow tends to be different on each, but they are all consoles.
Besides all the obvious features already mentioned (EQ, effects, gate, compression, sends, DCA's, buss mixes, etc.) the ability to STORE/RECALL settings for EACH venue makes life so much easier for a working band on a regular circuit. The BEST thing (as mentioned earlier) about the X32R is you CAN run it from the front panel in a pinch, something the other don't offer. The best thing about the Ui24R is that it's interface is HTML5 and doesn't require you to download an "app" to work with it. Any old browser connection will do.
I've not had an iPad or tablet shutdown due to thermal overload when running SR, but I've played at gigs where I've seen it happen to others.
I always use an external router (access point) with digital consoles and don't EVER use the inbuilt wireless - as its generally a weak spot. YMMV
I put the router on 5G and stay out of the 2.4G cluster, so drops are very rare.
Lots of other bennies, but the price/feature point can't be beat !
I'll take digital any day.. but I'm also the guy that's been wireless bass and wireless IEM for 5+ yrs now.. YMMV

 

[Manticore]

There are pluses and minuses to both. I am in two bands, one uses a Soundcraft digital, one a Soundcraft analog. The digital makes set up easier, the analog is easier to adjust during the gig if you are doing it from the stage.

I own a PA but I prefer to let others do the mixing during the gig. I have two Soundcraft mixers, one digital, one analog. You are absolutely correct; the digital is easier to use at soundcheck and the analog is easier to adjust on the fly. I bring both when I'm asked to bring the PA given some folks aren't up to speed on the digital interface...

 

[TeamScorpioRI]

We use the Presonus Studio Live 16. Great board and has not let us down yet *knocks on wood*. It is the regular version, so if it the iPad goes down I still have some regular sliders to work with.

 

[RustyAxe]

There are pluses and minuses to both. I am in two bands, one uses a Soundcraft digital, one a Soundcraft analog. The digital makes set up easier, the analog is easier to adjust during the gig if you are doing it from the stage.

This is the main reason I haven't (yet) gone digital with an iPad (or whatever). Mixing from the stage (EQ, volume, etc) can be easily adjusted without wading through menus.

 

[garp]

I'm on drum tech duty this evening for a jazz concert at which the sound guy is using a Behringer X32 to feed two QSC KLA12 powered speakers. Like some others here, I've had some bad experiences with Behringer in the past, but I have to say I'm rather impressed with the X32. This particular unit is about 18 months old, supposedly sees road use 4-5 times per week, and hasn't experienced any component failures yet.

I like the idea and versatility of going digital (saving settings for particular venues comes to mind as a big plus)

I'm an analog guy a heart, but that's what's kind of cool about the digital units like the X32. At yesterday's rehearsal, with the press of a button, the sound guy pulled up the saved settings from our last three shows. Yes, board/effect settings can always be written down, but you can also make a phone call with two tin cans and a piece of string.

 

[LUpton]

Our band uses a Soundcraft digital board. I LOVE the fact that we can connect a 16 ch stagebox on stage with the board in FOH position by running an ethernet-style CAT 6 cable, instead of a firehose-sized analog multipair snake. The road-ready CAT 6 cables are only about the size of a mic cable, and it makes that cable run a snap. Also, mixing monitors from the stage w an Ipad for a 13 member group is the only way yo go, IMHO.

 

[JRA]

makes me wonder if old knobs and sliders still might be the more practical method.

i'm thinking you meant "reliable method" as the digital stuff has a lot of "practicality" for a lot of gigs these days.
but either way:

If you play enough gigs without a plan "B," any piece of gear will eventually come to grief and drag you along with it.

What are you using these days and are you happy with your setup?

i still maintain some analog gear as "plan B,"* but i tend to favor the digital stuff for: ease of operation, lighter, smaller footprint, yada yada.



* i don't take anolog backups to gigs. if my digital stuff has fatal failure = i am S.O.L.

 

[honeyiscool]

Since digital mixers all have hard drives, if they crash it’s a total fail, unlike an analog mixer that typically might only have various functions go out.

No, they do not have hard drives. I can’t think of a single one that does. They have flash storage for their operating system, but flash storage is so reliable that memory cards left in the ocean for a couple of years often work. Try that with analog gear.

 

[honeyiscool]

We use the Presonus Studio Live 16. Great board and has not let us down yet *knocks on wood*. It is the regular version, so if it the iPad goes down I still have some regular sliders to work with.

I can’t believe that you’re the first person to point out that digital does not mean no sliders. You can still have a standard form factor mixer that happens to also have wireless control.

 

[JimmyM]

I can’t believe that you’re the first person to point out that digital does not mean no sliders. You can still have a standard form factor mixer that happens to also have wireless control.

Right. Some companies do away with sliders and knobs as a cost and size-saving method, but there are plenty of digital boards with both.

 

[EastCoastThump]

How many of these issues are really about digital boards, and how many are about other qualities that for now we just associate with digital mixers?

My first digital board was a Yamaha ProMix 01, and so it feels like a relatively recent development that we now mentally associate "digital" with "no physical faders or pots." Heck, it wasn't that long ago that the Presonus StudioLive boards ruled this musician-oriented budget end of the digital mixer market. If being able to grab a physical fader or pot is crucial for you, digital can be just as hands-on as an analog board. The price: carrying a physical controller.

Similarly, it also feels like the reliability questions attributes problems to a product's digital design that really have other roots. Sure, digital tech—especially in relatively new product lines—will be vulnerable to some gremlins. But some of the issues are about product complexity. More complex mixers—digital or analog—offer more vulnerabilities. And beyond that, in pieces like the Behringer XR series, some of the reliability issues aren't down to either complexity *or* the boards' digital nature; they come from manufacturing and sourcing decisions made to economize production. If Behringer were famous for sparing no expense in making bullet-proof analog mixers, maybe anecdotes about X-series issues would raise questions specific to digital mixers. That's not our world, though.

Most on-the-gig problems I've experienced or heard about with digital mixers are wifi connectivity problems. Those are already solveable issues, as long as I either directly connect via LAN or just run a more robust and secured router.

The next most common type of problem seems to be issues with the third-party controller apps or host devices. A fair few of these reports boil down to user training, but even counting those out leaves plenty of legitimate beefs here. Maybe this category remains a significant source of trouble as the devices and apps mature, but I'd be surprised.

edit: while I was typing this novel-length post, TB said most of it already

 

[Meyatch]

We use a Mackie DL-32. If the ipad crashes, loses battery, or you just chuck it in a lake, the mixer will keep doing what it was doing before. The ipad only changes settings, it doesn't actually run anything.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I nearly used my Zoom R16 and two laptops as a form of remote digital mixing, but that was because the PA in the venue was not where anticipated, and running cables to it would have caused a trip hazard. In the end we just had to go with rather less automation and run lights and sound separately from two locations. It was just as well there were two of us for this band, as I've been the sole engineer for them before.

In retrospect, I'm not sure I'd have trusted the WiFi connection with 100 phones running WiFi in the room.

 

[s0c9]

This is the main reason I haven't (yet) gone digital with an iPad (or whatever). Mixing from the stage (EQ, volume, etc) can be easily adjusted without wading through menus.

You don't need to wade thru layers... you leave it on the layer you need to adjust levels.. if you're digging thru menu's, you have other issues.

 

[Mark Reccord]

How many of these issues are really about digital boards, and how many are about other qualities that for now we just associate with digital mixers?

My first digital board was a Yamaha ProMix 01, and so it feels like a relatively recent development that we now mentally associate "digital" with "no physical faders or pots." Heck, it wasn't that long ago that the Presonus StudioLive boards ruled this musician-oriented budget end of the digital mixer market. If being able to grab a physical fader or pot is crucial for you, digital can be just as hands-on as an analog board. The price: carrying a physical controller.

Similarly, it also feels like the reliability questions attributes problems to a product's digital design that really have other roots. Sure, digital tech—especially in relatively new product lines—will be vulnerable to some gremlins. But some of the issues are about product complexity. More complex mixers—digital or analog—offer more vulnerabilities. And beyond that, in pieces like the Behringer XR series, some of the reliability issues aren't down to either complexity *or* the boards' digital nature; they come from manufacturing and sourcing decisions made to economize production. If Behringer were famous for sparing no expense in making bullet-proof analog mixers, maybe anecdotes about X-series issues would raise questions specific to digital mixers. That's not our world, though.

Most on-the-gig problems I've experienced or heard about with digital mixers are wifi connectivity problems. Those are already solveable issues, as long as I either directly connect via LAN or just run a more robust and secured router.

The next most common type of problem seems to be issues with the third-party controller apps or host devices. A fair few of these reports boil down to user training, but even counting those out leaves plenty of legitimate beefs here. Maybe this category remains a significant source of trouble as the devices and apps mature, but I'd be surprised.

edit: while I was typing this novel-length post, TB said most of it already

Yeah, ditto on the ProMix 01 in 1999-ish. So really, digital desks really aren't that new. There were large format consoles available in the early 2000s but they weren't as user-friendly and reliable as they are now. I remember doing a televised awards show with a first-gen Innova-Son and being terrified the thing would crash in the telecast, since it had done so 5 or 6 times during rehearsals. It didn't.

I have to say that the Mixing Station Pro Android app for the X32 is excellent. It's superior to the official IOS app.