Rather than gamble on a 410 or etc, I'd get another Bergantino HD112 because you already know you like the sound of it and with two HD112s it will be louder (more of what you like) - and sell the Markbass 115.
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Mixing speaker cabinets
- Thread starter Jake Morris
- Start date
Rather than gamble on a 410 or etc, I'd get another Bergantino HD112 because you already know you like the sound of it and with two HD112s it will be louder (more of what you like) - and sell the Markbass 115.
Russell L said:
I knew that it's not speaker but the way the cab is designed. But when I tried the two cabs together my dad said it added lows. I knew it wasn't the right move, but whatever. I will make sure I make the right move this time.
I've played on mixed-driver cabs before as well as cabs w/ diff drivers inside the cabs w/ no problems. You just have to watch out for blowing/frying a driver if one cab or driver can handle more/less power than another.
I used a Mesa 210+212 setup for a while which sounded great. People have and do use 410+115 setups and again, as long as you realize that they're different cabs with differing capabilities, it shouldn't be an issue.
Oh, and inb4"therealwaytodoit", plenty of pros I see all the time have different cabs onstage with like a 10" and 15" driver miked, or a 10" and 12", etc.
I used a Mesa 210+212 setup for a while which sounded great. People have and do use 410+115 setups and again, as long as you realize that they're different cabs with differing capabilities, it shouldn't be an issue.
Oh, and inb4"therealwaytodoit", plenty of pros I see all the time have different cabs onstage with like a 10" and 15" driver miked, or a 10" and 12", etc.
BurningSkies said:
I have tried different places in the room, and corners, but still. The ceiling is low I don't know if that affects anything other than it can get loud quickly. But I think the room just has bad acoustics.
Apparently you need to study up on phasing issues because that is just as much of a problem mixing speaker sizes as is power handling.
Also, just because "Pros" do it, does not make it 100% right. The so called "pros" are people that play instruments. They are not acoustical engineers, and don't know any better then 90% of the beginner bassists out there.
billfitzmaurice
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- Sep 15, 2004
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Two cabs are louder than one. Louder is perceived as lower. Google 'Equal loudness curve', another concept that every bass player should be very familiar with, but few seem to be.
Yeah, well, it takes more power/speakers to be able to get the lows out at enough dbs to hear them more (did I say that right?). It's why boosting your lows on your eq runs you out of headroom real quick. Takes a lot to make them louder. I have also noticed that when I use both my 151P cabs I feel like maybe I want to boost the mids a tad to get the tone back to where I liked it when I was just using one cab at the same volume. Sorry, I don't know enough to explain it.
sounds right to me.
interesting, in that the stack puts the top cab closer to your ear, where i would have expected the mids and highs to show up more.
So, the "acoustical engineers" (I'm assuming you mean soundmen) that follow these lowly pissant "pros" around seem to be just fine with it... is that what you meant?
You know, the people who's job it is to make sure the FOH sounds as good as possible?I've read the "phasing" things on here plenty. Lotta silly stuff. The only way to eliminate "phasing" altogether is to not play.
Or get one of these-
Link Removed
I'm surprised they aren't more popular here.
When I gig, the last thing I'm worried about is fantastical stories that get eschewed as gospel from non-experts... 
You're getting into the whole "self aware cabinetry" thing again. What's sad is- you probably believe it. It's not built by Cyberdyne Systems, FYI. 
So, the "acoustical engineers" (I'm assuming you mean soundmen) that follow these lowly pissant "pros" around seem to be just fine with it... is that what you meant?
Some acoustical engineers may double as soundmen, but I think he was referring to those that have studied, been awarded advanced degrees, and make their living designed enclosures.
I've read the "phasing" things on here plenty. Lotta silly stuff. The only way to eliminate "phasing" altogether is to not play.
Or get one of these-
Link Removed
I'm surprised they aren't more popular here.
gospel from non experts? Science may be a religion to some, but this isnt faith we are talking about.
So, the "acoustical engineers" (I'm assuming you mean soundmen) that follow these lowly pissant "pros" around seem to be just fine with it... is that what you meant?
I've read the "phasing" things on here plenty. Lotta silly stuff. The only way to eliminate "phasing" altogether is to not play.
Or get one of these-
Link Removed
I'm surprised they aren't more popular here.
I pretty much agree with the 'phasing' issue in the way I think you mean it. Folks have been playing while having 'phasing' issues for decades and still sounding fine. But otoh if you can afford it, get the gear that minimizes it.
However, where it will make a significant difference is where two cabs are 180deg out of phase or have opposite polarity. This will kill you bass response.
I may have missed whether this has been checked already but if not the op should test this to see if his cabs are in phase or not. This requires a 9v battery, speaker cable and being able to see the speaker cone. It's an easy test.
Joe.
If someone like Jim Bergantino deems it plausible to build a multi-driver cab, which I've indeed owned, gigged, and (amazingly I know) made audible sound, I'm pretty sure we'll all be ok in the end. I even laid it on it's side once. (Amazingly I know) it still made sound too. What you keep referring to does not happen 3-5ft from your cab...
Either way, KLOPS Drums are the only way to 100% eliminate phazors from happening. I suggest you try one out!
Either way, KLOPS Drums are the only way to 100% eliminate phazors from happening. I suggest you try one out!
So, the "acoustical engineers" (I'm assuming you mean soundmen) that follow these lowly pissant "pros" around seem to be just fine with it... is that what you meant?
:
Kind of funny how you unintentionally(I think) worded that.
Being that FOH systems almost NEVER have dissimilar drivers playing in the same passband...
It's pretty well known and accepted bass waveforms do not fully develop or get their "full sound" a few feet or inches from your cabinet. I would think "the experts" would get this- which is why you can't hear yourself on stage, yet the people in the 5th row are getting creamed.
Close-miking different drivers for live/recording/FOH purposes do not induce these claims of phazors like people try to make it out to be. But hey, before TB I didn't know cabs were self aware either about being laid horizontally or vertically so that was news...
Again- KLOPS Drums are the only proven method to eliminate this 100%. People should look into it.
When/if I start using my bass cabs for FOH support, I'll start worrying about it...
It's not all that difficult to time-align stuff at the board ya know, or even on your rig... Interesting comparison but as you already knew, not the same thing.
KLOPS.
The ceiling is one boundry you can't get away from, but, you can figure out what it's affect is and try to work around it the best you can. Example, don't keep boosting some bandwidth that's just going to get swallowed up anyway, try to notch yourself in below or above it.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Some of this may involve getting your guitar player to adjust his tone so everybody has a place to "fit" in the mix. This is sometimes easier said than done.
Also, gig size rigs in small practice rooms can just plain over-run the room with volume. At that point, turning up makes it harder to hear. Come at it from the angle of turning down the problem areas instead of just everybody turning up trying to hear and adding to the problem.
Is the polarity of both cabs the same?
Joe.
I pretty much agree with the 'phasing' issue in the way I think you mean it. Folks have been playing while having 'phasing' issues for decades and still sounding fine. But otoh if you can afford it, get the gear that minimizes it.
However, where it will make a significant difference is where two cabs are 180deg out of phase or have opposite polarity. This will kill you bass response.
I may have missed whether this has been checked already but if not the op should test this to see if his cabs are in phase or not. This requires a 9v battery, speaker cable and being able to see the speaker cone. It's an easy test.
Joe.
Maybe a third will get it done? Beyond all the mix driver debate the pronounced mids with no bass is a classic out of phase symptom. The cones on both cabs should move the same direction with the + from the battery to the tip of a cable. Your guitarists cab could also be out of phase if this only happens with the band playing (he could be cancelling your low end).
