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Mixing speaker cabinets

Jake Morris

Jake Morris

Jun 10, 2009
690
7
North Jersey
www.facebook.com
#1
A couple weeks ago at one of my band practices (6-piece funk/pop group) the guitarist told me to turn up the lows and get a deeper sound. So I turned the bass up and some low mids. After a song he told me it wasn't enough. After a couple times messing with eq, I noticed my bass was all the way up. I thought I sounded really deep and low but my guitarist still said nothing changed. So I walked 8 feet to where he was standing in front my my rig and played. It sounded pretty bad! No lows. Only high mids and highs! I didn't get it!

So I did some research and saw what people were saying about mixing cab sizes. My rig is a bergantino hd112 on top of a markbass ny115. I got the bergantino first because I love it's sound. I got the markbass to add some lows. But it didn't work I guess. When I use just the berg it sounds great! Just can't go too loud with it.

But what I was wondering... Would getting a light weight 410 solve my problem? Just use the bergantino 112 for smaller gigs (like my jazz gigs) and then the 410 for bigger stuff? (stages, outdoors, etc). Or would adding another berg 112 to my 112 work better than a 410? I don't really like the markbass 115 honestly. Not my sound. My head is a gk 700rbii, but plan on getting a lightweight head like a genz Benz or rc electronic rh450 or something along those lines, but till after getting a final cab.

And the lighter the cab the better for me. Had an Ampeg isovent that was over 100 pounds. Not going there again hahah. I know the swr golight is really light. Just need opinions at this point as I'm not going to be making a move on this for some time after my latest purchase being a Benavente SCD 6 string hahaha.
 
#2
either one would do, but i like the idea of being able to use both of my cabs to max effectiveness together, so a second matching berg appeals.

i've heard plenty of stacked pairs of single 12s kick butt, if not quite at raging rock band levels.

(now add a third berg 1x12...:eek:)
 
#3
walterw said:
either one would do, but i like the idea of being able to use both of my cabs to max effectiveness together, so a second matching berg appeals.

i've heard plenty of stacked pairs of single 12s kick butt, if not quite at raging rock band levels.

(now add a third berg 1x12...:eek:)
Click to expand...

But how would a 212 compare to a 410? Won't the 410 be able to get louder? And I would get a 4 ohm 410 if I got a 410 and an 8 ohm 112 to go with my 8ohm 112 for 4 ohm together.
 
#5
What you found is more likely to be a room mode cancellation and unlikely to be fixed with matching cabs. Don't let that deflate your urge to get matching cabs to try out. Twin bergs sounds like a sweet rig.

Lows reflect off walls floors and ceilings with great efficiency. The speaker doesn't have to face them. When the arrival time of the reflection is different enough to the straight line path you get cancellation. The easiest way to avoid problems is to set up in the corner and turn the bass down since it's easy to get booming.
 
#8
Jake Morris said:
My rig is a bergantino hd112 on top of a markbass ny115. I got the bergantino first because I love it's sound. I got the markbass to add some lows. But it didn't work I guess. When I use just the berg it sounds great! Just can't go too loud with it.
Click to expand...
Get another identical Berg. You've found out the hard way that voodoo engineering doesn't work. Don't repeat the error.
So I walked 8 feet to where he was standing in front my my rig and played. It sounded pretty bad! No lows. Only high mids and highs! I didn't get it!
Click to expand...
That's caused by room cancellation modes, a subject every bass player should be very cognizant of. Google it.
 
#9
Bill is right.

I tried running one of my Markbass 151P cabs as an extension to my 121H combo. It sounded fine at low volume, but the 12 would run out of excursion before the 15 even got going at gig volume. Now I run two 151Ps. Works great, and I can push the 15s more than the 12, seems like.

Also, don't count on a 15 putting out more lows than a 12 based solely on speaker size. There's a whole lot more to it than that. The cab has a lot to do with it, also the speaker design, and much more.
 
#10
Russell L said:
Bill is right.

I tried running one of my Markbass 151P cabs as an extension to my 121H combo. It sounded fine at low volume, but the 12 would run out of excursion before the 15 even got going at gig volume. Now I run two 151Ps. Works great, and I can push the 15s more than the 12, seems like.

Also, don't count on a 15 putting out more lows than a 12 based solely on speaker size. There's a whole lot more to it than that. The cab has a lot to do with it, also the speaker design, and much more.
Click to expand...

+1 to the whole post.

There are 12's that will kick the 15's in those markbass cabs right in the nuts as far as volume is concerned, then continue to dominate them in lows. Some of those 12's suffer in the highs though, there will be trade offs in every system.
 
#11
Downunderwonder said:
What you found is more likely to be a room mode cancellation and unlikely to be fixed with matching cabs.
Click to expand...

This.

Plus, by just cranking up the low EQ, you were probably just making the bass boomy and muddy. You probably would have been better off adding in some mids.

Plus, if you're going to mix speaker sizes, it doesn't really make sense to get 2 single driver cabs or adjacent sizes (ie 1x12 and 1x15). The speaker characteristics are likely to be pretty similar, while the power handling might be different enough that you would be limiting your system to what the less capable driver can keep up with. That's why so many people use the 2x15/1x15 combo. Both cabs have close to the same cone area, and will have similar power handling, but (and of course the speaker illuminati here will deny this) the 10s will TEND to go higher (without a tweeter) and the 15 will TEND to go lower. There's a lot of overlap these days, but if you look at the specs for a lot of different drivers/cabs, they'll bear this out.
 
#12
Combination of the different phase response of the mismatched speakers and the acoustics of your practice space the way things are set up in there. Tons of threads on this. Your guitarist is standing in a null zone. It doesn't matter how much bass you crank up, he won't hear it, but you can destroy your speakers trying.

+1 to matching cabs, and, you also should try re-arranging your setup in the room, and walk the room, hearing where the loud spots and dead spots are.
 
#13
When Bill says google it, google it! I go for the corner or stake out the wall and get the hell away from the corner. Works for me, thanks to Bill.

Tonight my 2x10 was 4ft off the floor in no man's land. That got me more or less invisible in the FOH but holding my own in a 15 piece jazz band going hard.

If you don't know what I'm on about study Bill Fitzmaurice.

Same goes for metal, blues, rock. Geddy Lee is the standout example, less is more when you have FOH. If you don't have FOH, vertical anything, 10's, 12's, 15's, whatever you got, get another one.

Anything with side by side speakers hits you with a hot zone of your highs in front of the stack. As great as they sound in front, I feel 8x10 and 4x10 cabs have had their day. Too many hifi options with the advance of woofer technology.
 
#14
Downunderwonder said:
Anything with side by side speakers hits you with a hot zone of your highs in front of the stack. As great as they sound in front, I feel 8x10 and 4x10 cabs have had their day. Too many hifi options with the advance of woofer technology.
Click to expand...

+1

Especially where there are so many great options for modern 15's. No longer is a 410 or 810 needed for efficiency. Give me a pair of stacked 3015's or Faital Pro's any day over an 810.
 
#20
Jake Morris said:
A couple weeks ago at one of my band practices (6-piece funk/pop group) the guitarist told me to turn up the lows and get a deeper sound. So I turned the bass up and some low mids. After a song he told me it wasn't enough. After a couple times messing with eq, I noticed my bass was all the way up. I thought I sounded really deep and low but my guitarist still said nothing changed. So I walked 8 feet to where he was standing in front my my rig and played. It sounded pretty bad! No lows. Only high mids and highs! I didn't get it!

So I did some research and saw what people were saying about mixing cab sizes. My rig is a bergantino hd112 on top of a markbass ny115. I got the bergantino first because I love it's sound. I got the markbass to add some lows. But it didn't work I guess. When I use just the berg it sounds great! Just can't go too loud with it.

But what I was wondering... Would getting a light weight 410 solve my problem? Just use the bergantino 112 for smaller gigs (like my jazz gigs) and then the 410 for bigger stuff? (stages, outdoors, etc). Or would adding another berg 112 to my 112 work better than a 410? I don't really like the markbass 115 honestly. Not my sound. My head is a gk 700rbii, but plan on getting a lightweight head like a genz Benz or rc electronic rh450 or something along those lines, but till after getting a final cab.

And the lighter the cab the better for me. Had an Ampeg isovent that was over 100 pounds. Not going there again hahah. I know the swr golight is really light. Just need opinions at this point as I'm not going to be making a move on this for some time after my latest purchase being a Benavente SCD 6 string hahaha.
Click to expand...

Is the polarity of both cabs the same?

:D

Joe.
 

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