Modding a cheap bass

[FullumMusic]

How is Fender/Squier able to make an entire bass for less than the price of a replace part?
- Economy of scale
- Cheaply made components, comprised of cheaper materials, made cheaper by purchasing power of scale, sourced from countries where they can get them the cheapest.
- Build in countries with cheap labor, where the labor's directive is quantity and speed over quality and craftsmanship.

Same way any company in any industry makes things cheaper.

What makes components cheaper than others?
- Wider spec tolerances
-- Capacitors can be +/- their designated capacitance by higher percentages;
-- Pots +/- their resistance rating by higher percentages;
-- Two matching pots that don't have the same resistance-gradient as you turn them;
-- Pickup impedances, tonality, etc vary from pickup to pickup in the same run.
-- Tuner gears with lower precision
- Almost everything that's metal on your instrument is an alloy. The copper wire in your pickups aren't pure copper. The bridge isn't pure steel or aluminum or brass. Etc etc. Cheaper components have a cheaper composite metals in higher quantities relative to the main metal. And those metals are probably coming from recycling centers in China or other places where metals are made from a mix of quality grades of that metal and plenty of other impurities.
- Multiple suppliers. Fender/Squier is most likely sourcing from a variety of suppliers and buying whoever can reach the lowest price-point at the time they need more, and that could be a different supplier with slightly different formula, all going into the same model of inexpensive instrument.

But when Hipshot is making its bridges and tuners in the USA, paying employees for a much higher standard of living, and ensuring that their aluminum is quality aluminum with minimal impurities, with closer tolerances, it's gonna be more expensive (and more consistent).

 

[MotorCityMinion]

Do not buy a cheap drop tuner. You regret that fast. Replacing the bridge won't change anything tonally. Honestly, nothing wrong with a squier sonic p-bass for beginners. Instead of grabbing the low hanging fruit on sale, you should have bought a better bass suited for your needs to begin with. Sell that asap and get what you want before dropping any more cash on it.

 

[groooooove]

supply and demand, production scale, production costs..

this is a business question, but it is what it is. it is very easy to assemble a parts bass for multiple times the price of effectively the same thing bought as a production model.

 

[scuzzy]

Cast pot metal is a lot cheaper than milled billet aluminum.

A civic and a maserati Can both get you to the grocery store.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Any cheap bass mod suggestions.
1..Make sure the neck is stable. No weird grain patterns, knots and is straight.
2.. After that, anything you want.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Of course the act of modding has a pure fun component, which has value in itself, even if it doesn’t make sense in pure dollar terms. The number and variety of parts available for FSO’s is mind boggling. I have a 00’s era MIM P with terminal “ski jump” issues I’ll be building a new Jazz style neck for. It would be far cheaper and easier to just buy an Allparts neck for it, but where’s the fun in that?

 

[pie_man_25]

It's invariably more expensive to go the a la carte route.

I've been seeing folks do this with bases, guns, and bikes for a while now. If you want it how you want it and you're going aftermarket? You're going to pay aftermarket prices for the way that you want it. Fender has a complex system set up so they can make you a sonic p bass and get it shipped to the music store for $300 CAD and it's all worthwhile because they planned out the logistics and economies of scale. If you want it your way you're basically just using their plants and forgoing all of their logistics to make the cheap part happen and then getting some of their stuff, some of somebody else's stuff et cetera. The price you pay is for all the little parts to get built and shipped to some other plant that assembles it all, tests it, boxes it, ships it to wholesalers and distributers, and then retailers before it gets to you.

The most consistent ways I've seen to get ahead in terms of price are to have stashes of old parts from previous projects or people's trash; be willing to wait on the used market for stuff you want or be willing to compromise for good enough parts; or have industry connections in some way. That guy on YouTube that built his guitar with parts from xyzguitars? The parts were probably free to plug the website.

I'll just add to all of this:

1) nothing wrong with modding or building stuff, it's just good to know the finances moving in.

2) brevity is not my strong suit.

3) if the name on your headstock doesn't matter: I'd look on guitarfetish.com, or AliExpress - but on AliExpress I'd assume that anything with a brand name that you know of, is counterfeit. I've had good experiences, but I steer clear of those products.

 

[SharpCat]

I recently dropped the Geezer solderless kit into my new $381 Yamaha BB234 along with a Hipshot KickAss bridge and a set of LaBella Deep Talkin' Bass Flatwounds.

I will be going further by creating individual Volume/Tone controls for each pickup with two EMG concentric pots - and one of the EMG Geezer pots - to create a VT/VT/Master V configuration to finish the journey into bass nirvana! This configuration has been suggested to EMG as a Geezer kit option...

Future mods include Hipshot USA UltraLite Tuners and a prettier pickguard...

The best thing I ever did to my 234 was get it PLEKed.

Second best was new pickups, which you’ve already done.

Agree on new PG—I went with clear to show that natural wood.

Unless you’re getting severe neck drop, IMHO ultralights not a noticeable change.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

So I recently picked up a squier sonic p-bass. After an initial setup I’m very happy with the way it plays. I bought on sale over the Labor Day holiday, so needless to say not a lot invested to date other than a new set of strings.

Being the type of person that really enjoys customizing my instruments, I immediately started thinking about all the possible upgrades I could make. One of the first things that popped into my mind was adding a Hipshot drop tuner. I also considered buying a MIM p bass neck since the sonic series basses feature a j neck.

What I found was really interesting. The single Hipshot tuning key was $70+ and the replacement p neck was $399. I didn’t even consider replacing the pickup because pickup prices are so crazy (and I actually like the stock pickup).

How is it possible fender can assemble and ship an entire bass for less than the cost of common replacement parts? Not to pick on Hipshot, but 4 tuners and a bridge sell for more than the cost of dozens of basses currently on the market. Why does fender sell MIM necks for $399 and somehow won’t sell squier Chinese or Indonesia necks at a lower price point like they do for their instruments? Does anyone know of a budget drop tuner I can try? Please leave your favorite budget p bass mod suggestions.

Rock on!

As a player of mostly Fender musical instruments for over 50 years, I get the FSO appeal. Trust me on this. That said, there are a lot of other manufacturers world wide to choose from.

But to your point how does this make make sense, it isn’t so much about sense as it is that they can charge this much. And that make very much cents

 

[KohanMike]

My 21" scale bass ukes run about $200, then I have Eric's Guitar Shop in Van Nuys, CA modify them with a fully adjustable bridge and riser, mini-humbucker pickup, HipShot or Gotoh tuning machines, custom pickguard, Kala/Galli flatwound nylon core strings. I have Pat Wilkins, also in Van Nuys, paint them or add a veneer top.

 

[Minimalist]

How is it possible fender can assemble and ship an entire bass for less than the cost of common replacement parts? Not to pick on Hipshot, but 4 tuners and a bridge sell for more than the cost of dozens of basses currently on the market. Why does fender sell MIM necks for $399 and somehow won’t sell squier Chinese or Indonesia necks at a lower price point like they do for their instruments? Does anyone know of a budget drop tuner I can try? Please leave your favorite budget p bass mod suggestions.

Rock on!

Spare parts will always be more expensive. That $800 bass likely costs $200 or less to make. The neck is probably not more than $50 in cost. As a rule of thumb, each link in the chain will double the price. Cheaper items have a higher percent margin than expensive items.

You will have to ask Fender why they won't sell cheaper Chinese or Indonesian necks. That can have a variety of reasons, and is most likely a mix between marketing and business driven.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

Sonic P bass in yellow from FMIC:

I had to fix a cold solder joint on my pickup as FMIC doesn't repair these, they just exchange them. Not surprising, given the price. They have no "spare" pickup to send me. My repair seems solid and I'm confident in my soldering ability so I'll just keep it, although they told me I could still return or exchange it. Kudos to them for that. The rest of the bass is so remarkably good that I'd be wary of thinking a replacement would measure up. Curious about what happens to the ones sent back for exchange...

BBB

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

Cast pot metal is a lot cheaper than milled billet aluminum.

A civic and a maserati Can both get you to the grocery store.

And a $200 Sonic or a $2000+ FCS can both be the tools that PAY for the groceries!

BBB

 

[kodiakblair]

The neck is probably not more than $50 in cost.

I doubt they cost that much.

Rule of thumb is it takes 1BF of maple for a bolt on neck and most mills are charging $4 to $5 for that. Course FMIC and the rest don't buy just 1BF, they're going through 2 may 3 MBF of maple per week; just at Corona. Big savings for buying in bulk Even bigger savings for the Asian builders as a few of them had the foresight to remove the middleman and operate their own US sawmills; folks like World Musical Instruments and Kawai did that 40 years back.

 

[NotHereNow]

The more I think about this the more I like the car analogy. Imagine if you wanted to get a new part for your Honda civic but they told you replacement parts for the civic aren’t available so you had to buy the expensive Acura version? And the part also costs 50% of what you paid for your new civic that you bought directly from Honda.

 

[Brian Patterson]

The best thing I ever did to my 234 was get it PLEKed.

Second best was new pickups, which you’ve already done.

Agree on new PG—I went with clear to show that natural wood.

Unless you’re getting severe neck drop, IMHO ultralights not a noticeable change.

The neck dive isn't critical but noticeable and a bit irritating, otherwise I wouldn't consider a tuner swap, but since I'm not going to become a 'collector' bassist, any improvements are valid. The pickguard is a sheer luxury I can do without.
What I really want to do is convert to a VT/VT/Master Volume controls configuration.
PLEK'ing is pricey! Mine plays quite well as is...

Bottom Line: I paid $381 for a body and neck. Added a $68 KickAss bridge, the $179 EMG Geezer set, and a $50 set of LaBella DTB flatwounds.
Is my $678 bass now twice the instument it was to start with? It is to me so the cost is justifiable.
If I had spent $800-$1000 to start with and made the same mods, those mods would still be an improvement, but no more satisfying.

 

[BobKos]

https://www.talkbass.com/classifieds/fender-squier-precision-p-bass-neck-maple-rosewood.1657911/

 

[Tom Winter]

Fender replacement necks are generally MIM, so likely cost more than Indonesia or other Asian locales. I guarantee they don’t cost Fender anywhere close to $399 though. I’ve heard that retail goods are generally wholesaled to the store at about 50%. Since SW also sells the same Fender necks, that would imply the cost to manufacture is under $200. Probably much lower.

At this point, ask yourself if the name on the headstock is importantly to you. For me it sometimes is, actually. In those cases, I peruse the Stratosphere on the bay. Like new necks there, Squier runs about $200, MIM $300-350, MIA in the $500’s. Tuners add $40-ish.

OTOH, on one P I have a MightyMite neck that I got on sale for $120 and it’s great.

Also, Fender seems to have 25% off sales once in a while. Can also use the free Fender Play offer that you get with a new instrument, and that gets a 10% discount at the Fender website. (Don’t forget to cancel before getting charged. )

Wonder when Fender will offer the new Player necks?

 

[SharpCat]

Wonder when Fender will offer the new Player necks?

$279 on Stratosphere already.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

The best thing I ever did to my 234 was get it PLEKed.

Second best was new pickups, which you’ve already done.

Agree on new PG—I went with clear to show that natural wood.

Unless you’re getting severe neck drop, IMHO ultralights not a noticeable change.

A high bass bridge does wonders to counteract neck dive, and less money than tuners if the tuners function well enough.