modern tube amps ??!!

[JMac- Wiskerface Designs]

I consider Myself one of the few Guys who find all those knobs and buttons on some amps distracting. You could sit for hours pushing buttons and turning knobs on an amp, then, move it to another venue, building, or room and have to do the tweak session thing all over again. All that tweaking crap, takes away from time You could be doing other things like actually playing vs farting around with Your amp. Hence I like amps with the minimal amount of knobs, where You can dial in what You like in a matter of minutes. Set it where it sounds good to Ya and rock on.....

 

[GregC]

I am disappointed in many modern tube amps because they include too many extra features.

Funny, I guess it depends how we define "modern". After the '70s, there was definitely a trend towards putting more EQ options into tube amps--the 400/400+ and the SVT-II/pro being the primary examples. The newest tube heads, though, seem to use a more back-to-basics approach to controls (a good thing, IMO): Reeves, Morgan, Matamp, Divided by 13, etc.

 

[blendermassacre]

Funny, I guess it depends how we define "modern". After the '70s, there was definitely a trend towards putting more EQ options into tube amps--the 400/400+ and the SVT-II/pro being the primary examples. The newest tube heads, though, seem to use a more back-to-basics approach to controls (a good thing, IMO): Reeves, Morgan, Matamp, Divided by 13, etc.

I think the move to more eq options in amps was a 'look what we can do' move, technologically.

Also, if you think about the tones going on in that time period, "vintage sound" definitely wasn't in. They were using the old tube technology, and trying to get a modern sound out of it, or at least the ability to do so.

 

[fdeck]

I'm not a tube guy, so please take this with an appropriate grain of salt. But I'm interested in how amps work, and have probably looked at every bass amp schematic that can be found online.

Beyond a certain point, extra features in tube amps tend to be implemented with solid state circuitry. Thus it begs the question of whether it's worth paying tube amp prices for solid state features.

 

[I<34080]

Looks like you want a tube power amp and a pre that has lots of fancy features

 

[Korladis]

Indeed. Besides EQ, what features do you really need? I can see wanting an overdrive channel and perhaps channel blending, that sort of thing. If it weren't for the fact that my mid knob is cut only, I probably wouldn't even use the graphic EQ on my tube head.

 

[blendermassacre]

Beyond a certain point, extra features in tube amps tend to be implemented with solid state circuitry. Thus it begs the question of whether it's worth paying tube amp prices for solid state features.

and weight.

 

[BZadlo]

This.

I had a realization with my 2-pro at my last practice... I was trying to EQ in a "fat tube" tone by using my eyes and turning the knobs to where I naturally assumed they should be, and was getting frustrated not being able to find it. I eventually turned everything to 12 o'clock and shut off the graphic EQ and worked back from there, using my ears and ignoring the position of the knobs, and guess what... there it was! The flatter I EQ'd everything, the better it sounded.

+1
I try to do this then use my hands to drastically vary the tone.
It's pretty incredible how many completely different sounds you can get out of an SVT/400+/V4B etc, a p bass and your hands.
I find that graphic eq works better for correcting speaker/room imperfections.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

No output transformer:
Milbert Amplifiers, Most Musical Amplifiers

Just ZOTL (SS), and that makes it NOT a tube amp in the eyes (and ears) of a tube enthusiast.

Tube amplifiers for high-end audio by The David Berning Company

The classic OTL would be better, and nowadays the technology does exists for making OTL capable tubes as the most common ones really aren't, at least in manageable quantities.

The definitive downside of the OTL, ZOTL and any of the countless other output transformerless designs in MI use is that the OT's contribution to the sound is often what the tube freak seeks, so taking that out of the equation makes the amps less desirable.

If the ZOTL is programmed for certain behaviour, it will, again, just make the amp a SS in the eyes of most people (the ones who give a crap about it in the first place ).

Regards
Sam

 

[BurningSkies]

+1

Otherwise, why would someone screw around with all that added weight with those huge heavy back killing transformers, etc??

Myself, I have a tube pre, and a tube power amp. My plan when my new fEarful 15/6 cabs are finished is to bi-amp, but then add an ss power amp for the woofers only.

I've gone the tube pre and big SS power route and it's a winner. I have owned both solid state and tube amps since the 80's, so I'm not pushing an agenda here.

I'll say my current high voltage tube pre and 3kw SS power amp are giving me all of the rich three dimensional uber harmonic sound I associate with tubes, but presented with much more clean pristine headroom than I ever could get with a tube head.

Coolhand or someone else... Could you explain your idea above a bit more. It's an interesting notion, but I can't quite wrap my head around it. There is a way to power the woofers separate from the horn? Also, which tube pre and power amp do you use or recommend?

It's an easy thing to do with a 4 post speakon. Assuming you've got the skill to crossover properly ...otherwise it might be best to use a standard configuration .

 

[Coolhandjjl]

......I'll say my current high voltage tube pre .....

Come on...say the name....

 

[edbass]

Hi.



Just ZOTL (SS), and that makes it NOT a tube amp in the eyes (and ears) of a tube enthusiast.

Tube amplifiers for high-end audio by The David Berning Company

The classic OTL would be better, and nowadays the technology does exists for making OTL capable tubes as the most common ones really aren't, at least in manageable quantities.

The definitive downside of the OTL, ZOTL and any of the countless other output transformerless designs in MI use is that the OT's contribution to the sound is often what the tube freak seeks, so taking that out of the equation makes the amps less desirable.

If the ZOTL is programmed for certain behaviour, it will, again, just make the amp a SS in the eyes of most people (the ones who give a crap about it in the first place ).

Regards
Sam

I agree that the OT is an intregal part of the MI tube tone. However I think that some of the true OTL designs may have some value for MI applications; tremendous bass response being one. One of the biggest drawbacks besides the OT's contribution to tone is flexibility, the main reason for having an OT in the first place.
Depending on the output tube selection, without an OT to match loads, impedance matching can be tricky as the output power and dynamic can vary greatly, often actually increasing in power with higher impedance loads often making use of conventional bass cab(s) awkward.

Another issue with a true OTL is heat, and lots of it. I believe Bruce Rozenblit's 20+ year old 30 watt OTL design puts out 150-200 watts of heat in A/B operation, and a 60 watt class A would put out a toasty 1500+ or so.
Not unlivable as an open chassis in a decent sized room, but very likely an issue enclosed in a box, near other heat sensitive components in a 150-200ish watt "gigging bass amp" configuration.

 

[IvanMike]

Looks like you want a tube power amp and a pre that has lots of fancy features

that may be the ticket.

IMO, it's a mistake to cram a tube amp full of features. Even in a tube preamp (or SS for that matter), extra circuitry can = tone suck. Case in point. the demeter H series preamp vs the 201 or 201s. Even with the parametric EQ disengaged, it just doesn't have the "mojo" of the straight up preamp. Engage it, and the tone difference is mind blowing.

 

[D.M.N.]

Without much to go on I figured I would throw this out there. Certainly not cheaper bought new than "vintage tube amps" but it does have a lot of features. I own the Sunn badged version which is the same amp. Me? I run mine flat into channel 1 without compression, EQ or anything else. But I guess it's there if you need it. Also makes a kickass guitar amp on the second channel.

+1000

I use one of these into a 2x15, and it's an incredible setup. These amps really are fantastic, and you can get them for cheaper than a lot of newer tube amps (I bought mine used, one owner for $800). I personally usually run into channel 1 with the bass at 5/6, the treble at 10, the EQ engaged in a "smirk", with bass pretty flat, mids pushed all up, and highs just below mids. Then the Bright and Deep switches engaged, no Comp or whatever else is on the right side.

That actually gives me a pretty close approximation of my Sunn 2000s, but it stays cleaner louder, obviously.

My only request from Fender would be to do away with the EQ, and just add a Mid-knob (not just a cut knob though) in place of the Graphic EQ, and do away with the onboard Comp.

 

[charlie monroe]

Tone is the only reason to buy a tube amp. Seriously.

+1

 

[seamonkey]

Hi.



Just ZOTL (SS), and that makes it NOT a tube amp in the eyes (and ears) of a tube enthusiast.

Tube amplifiers for high-end audio by The David Berning Company

The classic OTL would be better, and nowadays the technology does exists for making OTL capable tubes as the most common ones really aren't, at least in manageable quantities.

The definitive downside of the OTL, ZOTL and any of the countless other output transformerless designs in MI use is that the OT's contribution to the sound is often what the tube freak seeks, so taking that out of the equation makes the amps less desirable.

If the ZOTL is programmed for certain behaviour, it will, again, just make the amp a SS in the eyes of most people (the ones who give a crap about it in the first place ).

Regards
Sam

It's modern at least, well late last century modern.

I don't know about the "ears", I think that if people actually gave some amps the black box test. Like a double blind they may not distinguish it much. Eyes - yes they'd see there some SS between the tube and speaker, but they are not there to "amplify", they are there to convert the impedance.

They've been promising these for years but just never shipped. They may never, who knows?

 

[MilbertCom]

...just make the amp a SS in the eyes of most people...

Some apparently do 'hear' with their eyes and knee-jerk. But those who play GAGA respond positively -- "three dimensional", "organic", "bottomless", "headroom on the bottom", etc.