modular rig or combo???

[Rip Van Dan]

Howdy all. Hope ye are well.

New (ish) to bass. Posted previously about a few questions.

Question of the day is as titled......

I have a 20w Warwick blue cab at the moment. Its great for the house and practicing, even playing with another guitarist, quietly going through songs and some theory stuff.

Recently joined a band......Rehearsal room had 2 broken bass amps, so we tried the monitor which didn't work for us.

Point being I need to get a useable amp for rehearsals and small venues.
I have my heart set on a modular rig, links below:

https://www.thomann.de/ie/warwick_gnome.htm
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Idea here is further down the line I can upgrade the head and the cab will handle it.
Also the gnome headsets simple so Ill spend less time fiddling with it.

Here are some combo options:
https://www.thomann.de/ie/fender_rumble_100.htm
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

Combos seem to have more 'options' on them. and less to drag around.

I think I like the less options. Play a Sire V7 yesterday and immediately found there to be too many knobs and options.....lovely bass though.


In your experience what are the pros and cons of each? gigging, rehearsals, recording??

Thanks for reading

It's actually a pay more now or pay more later sort of thing. With the head and the cab(s) separate you'll pay more now, but you can upgrade either while still using the part you're not upgrading. I currently have 4 bass cabs (had 6 but donated 2 to my local church) and 4 amp heads. I have ended up with three Eden heads, 2 Eden cabs, 2 DNA cabs, and one DNA head.

I toured in the early 70's, then got married and got a normal job, still playing weekend gigs until all my touring gear stolen in 1976. After that, I had a really hard time getting things together again to the point I could gig again...20-years in fact, thus my screen name "Rip Van Dan" (like Rip Van Winkle). Big reason for that was tight money raising three kids.

Here are the various amps, cabs, and combo, I had since 1997 when I finally started gigging again:

• 1997 - borrowed a Yamaha 115 combo from my son to gig with.

• 1998 - borrowed a couple of JBL 112 with horn PA cabs from my son and used a GK guitar amp that I just had to pay $50 for the repair to get. Sounded great but after a bit my son needed those back for his DJ set-up.

• 2006 - bought GK115bpx and GK250backline amp as I started actively gigging again.

• 2006 - bought Sunn B202 4Ω cab (212 cab) for the monstrous price of $40 and had to hook it up in serial (cab had both serial and parallel outs) because the GK Backline 250 has a minimum ohms rating of 8 ohms...who does that??? Adding two 12" speakers to the mix though more than compensated for the drop in power by running a 12Ω load. So it worked.

• 2008 - bought an Eden Nemesis RS-400 amp - finally had a clear and good-sounding amp again but was too much power for the Sunn 212 cab so had to watch master volume closely

• 2009 - bought an acoustic B410 cab and retired the Sunn cab. Then I had a 410+115 stack and sounded pretty darn good!

• 2010 - bought the Eden WT500/800 directly from David Nordschow (founder of Eden). David used it for designing all his cabs since 1999 until he sold Eden and then left in 2009. Just great sounding amp using a tube in the preamp for added warmth. Has an incredibly versatile EQ system. Also has two power channels and a blend channel so I didn't have to cut the bass to get rid of the boominess from the GK115 cab. I plugged the cabs into separate power channels and turned the balance knob a bit over towards the channel with the 410. That made it send more power to the 410 and less to the115. So cured the boominess and let the acoustic 410 have all the bass it needed. Was a significant step up as far as sound goes. I gigged this set-up for about 5-years.

• 2015 - finally bought the DNS-410 that I had been wanting since 2010 when they first come out. Retired my bass stack because this one cab sounded better than my stack and is much louder too. That took my sound up to another level and I didn't have to lug two cabs around.

• 2018 - bought an Eden EX-112 4Ω cab (handles 300-watts rms) specifically for a small brew-pub we were playing 40+ times a year. Ran it with my RS400 amp. Sounded so good I bought a second one. Then bought an Eden TN226 (225-watts rms) class D amp weighing just 4.7-lbs used. That was a good match with my one EX-112 cab for the small brew pub. I could bring in the amp in a shoulder bag, my gig bag over the other shoulder, my bass in its case, and the cab in the other hand, all in one trip. Did have to go back to get my mic stand but that was about it.

• 2019 I was accepted to the DNA Endorsing Artist Group and bought a DNS-210 cab (handles 700-watts rms with a Max SPL of 134db) at a reduced price. Figured I could use it for both small and medium venues because no one looks twice at a bassist bringing in a 210 cab.. Then tried it out at a large venue and it handled it with no problem at all. So now I use it for all indoor venues and use the DNS-410 at outdoor gigs and music festivals.

• 2021 In May, I bought a DNA-800 amp that has the same power as my big Eden amp but the WT500/800 weighs in at 36-lbs in its rack and my new DNA-800 weighs just 4.8-lbs. It produces 400-watts into 8Ω and 800-watts into either 4Ω or 2Ω. My DNS cabs are both 8Ω so they would only get a max of 400-watts, but my DNS-210 cab will put out about 131db with that power and that's still beyond the threshold of pain. At this point, I donated my GK115bpx and my acoustic B410 cab to my local church.​

So as you can see, I kept upgrading bit by bit until I had everything I need. The only place I had a combo was at the very beginning and I had to retire it and get a new amp AND speakers to continue the upgrades. You just have a LOT more options when you have separate speakers and amp. It's easy to replace on or the other without having to replace both every time you want to upgrade one of them. Replacing both is significantly more expensive than replacing one or the other.

 

[pegdrums]

The Rumble 100 is loud for what it is, but if you're going to use it for gigs it's a little on the small side. What's going to determine the volume level is not so much the watts as the speaker area. More speaker area = louder.

I have to ask.......Phil Jones amps/ cabs are tiny. 7" drivers or something. Is that an entire other complicated voodoo they employ?

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Solid advice thanks.

Actually I would suggest, if you don't want to keep replacing combos with combos, and you're dead set on starting with a combo, that you get the Rumble 500 first, which will give you 300-watts into the two 10" speakers which is enough for small and medium venues and then buy another Rumble 210 extension speaker when you need to play larger venues. Adding the second speaker puts a 4Ω load on the amp releasing all 500-watts and sending 250-watts to each speaker cab. Of course, somewhere down the road, you may want to upgrade to an 800-watt system and then you'll have to replace the 500-watt combo and extension cab with an 800-watt combo and extension cab.

If you get a Rumble 200 and an extension cab, that's not going to be enough for a large venue and you'll have to replace it with a Rumble 500 and an extension cab. May as well just start at the 500 level and avoid the expense of buying a Rumble 200 + extra cab and then replacing it with a Rumble 500 +extra cab. Better yet. Get a separate amp and cab and upgrade the component you need to replace when you need to replace it instead of having to replace both at once.

 

[pegdrums]

It's actually a pay more now or pay more later sort of thing. With the head and the cab(s) separate you'll pay more now, but you can upgrade either while still using the part you're not upgrading. I currently have 4 bass cabs (had 6 but donated 2 to my local church) and 4 amp heads. I have ended up with three Eden heads, 2 Eden cabs, 2 DNA cabs, and one DNA head.

I toured in the early 70's, then got married and got a normal job, still playing weekend gigs until all my touring gear stolen in 1976. After that, I had a really hard time getting things together again to the point I could gig again...20-years in fact, thus my screen name "Rip Van Dan" (like Rip Van Winkle). Big reason for that was tight money raising three kids.

Here are the various amps, cabs, and combo, I had since 1997 when I finally started gigging again:

• 1997 - borrowed a Yamaha 115 combo from my son to gig with.

• 1998 - borrowed a couple of JBL 112 with horn PA cabs from my son and used a GK guitar amp that I just had to pay $50 for the repair to get. Sounded great but after a bit my son needed those back for his DJ set-up.

• 2006 - bought GK115bpx and GK250backline amp as I started actively gigging again.

• 2006 - bought Sunn B202 4Ω cab (212 cab) for the monstrous price of $40 and had to hook it up in serial (cab had both serial and parallel outs) because the GK Backline 250 has a minimum ohms rating of 8 ohms...who does that??? Adding two 12" speakers to the mix though more than compensated for the drop in power by running a 12Ω load. So it worked.

• 2008 - bought an Eden Nemesis RS-400 amp - finally had a clear and good-sounding amp again but was too much power for the Sunn 212 cab so had to watch master volume closely

• 2009 - bought an acoustic B410 cab and retired the Sunn cab. Then I had a 410+115 stack and sounded pretty darn good!

• 2010 - bought the Eden WT500/800 directly from David Nordschow (founder of Eden). David used it for designing all his cabs since 1999 until he sold Eden and then left in 2009. Just great sounding amp using a tube in the preamp for added warmth. Has an incredibly versatile EQ system. Also has two power channels and a blend channel so I didn't have to cut the bass to get rid of the boominess from the GK115 cab. I plugged the cabs into separate power channels and turned the balance knob a bit over towards the channel with the 410. That made it send more power to the 410 and less to the115. So cured the boominess and let the acoustic 410 have all the bass it needed. Was a significant step up as far as sound goes. I gigged this set-up for about 5-years.

• 2015 - finally bought the DNS-410 that I had been wanting since 2010 when they first come out. Retired my bass stack because this one cab sounded better than my stack and is much louder too.

• 2018 - bought an Eden EX-112 4Ω cab (handles 300-watts rms) specifically for a small brew-pub we were playing 40+ times a year. Ran it with my RS400 amp. Sounded so good I bought a second one. Then bought an Eden TN226 (225-watts rms) class D amp weighing just 4.7-lbs used. That was a good match with my one EX-112 cab for the small brew pub. I could bring in the amp in a shoulder bag, my gig bag over the other shoulder, my bass in its case, and the cab in the other hand, all in one trip. Did have to go back to get my mic stand but that was about it.

• 2019 I was accepted to the DNA Endorsing Artist Group and bought a DNS-210 cab (handles 700-watts rms with a Max SPL of 134db) at a reduced price. figured I could use it for both small and medium venues because no one looks twice at a bassist bringing in a 210 cab.. Then tried it out at a large venue and it handled it with no problem at all. So now I use it for all indoor venues and use the DNS-410 at outdoor gigs and music festivals.

• 2021 In May, I bought a DNA-800 amp that has the same power as my big Eden amp but the WT500/800 weighed in at 36-lbs in its rack and my new DNA-800 weighs just 4.8-lbs. It produces 400-watts into 8Ω and 800-watts into either 4Ω or 2Ω. My DNS cabs are both 8Ω so they would only get a max of 400-watts, but my DNS-210 cab will put out about 131db with that power and that's still beyond the threshold of pain. At this point, I donated my GK115bpx and my acoustic B410 cab to my local church.​

So as you can see, I kept upgrading bit by bit until I had everything I need. The only place I had a combo was at the very beginning and I had to retire it and get a new amp AND speakers to continue the upgrades. You just have a LOT more options when you have separate speakers and amp. It's easy to replace on or the other without having to replace both every time you want to upgrade one of them. Replacing both is significantly more expensive than replacing one or the other.

Thanks so much for such a comprehensive reply!! Very useful.

This is basically what draws me to a modular rig. From 20+ years of drumming (very modular) adding and subtracting bits and bobs wasn't just essential but part of the fun. It never stayed the same for to long.

Sorry to hear about all your gear getting stolen.

Impedence and ohms etc is new territory for me but learning as I go.

there are 2 x EX 112 For sale here but MILES away from me.

Im more dead set on modular rig rather than a combo.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Howdy all. Hope ye are well.

New (ish) to bass. Posted previously about a few questions.

Question of the day is as titled......

I have a 20w Warwick blue cab at the moment. Its great for the house and practicing, even playing with another guitarist, quietly going through songs and some theory stuff.

Recently joined a band......Rehearsal room had 2 broken bass amps, so we tried the monitor which didn't work for us.

Point being I need to get a useable amp for rehearsals and small venues.
I have my heart set on a modular rig, links below:

https://www.thomann.de/ie/warwick_gnome.htm
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Idea here is further down the line I can upgrade the head and the cab will handle it.
Also the gnome headsets simple so Ill spend less time fiddling with it.

Here are some combo options:
https://www.thomann.de/ie/fender_rumble_100.htm
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

Combos seem to have more 'options' on them. and less to drag around.

I think I like the less options. Play a Sire V7 yesterday and immediately found there to be too many knobs and options.....lovely bass though.


In your experience what are the pros and cons of each? gigging, rehearsals, recording??

Thanks for reading

FYI: when comparing watts in either handling power for speakers or amplifier power for amps, make sure you are looking at rms watts. The Warwick 112's you're looking at list power handling as "Max. Load 400 Watts". That means they are giving you the peak power rating not the rms rating which is 1/2 of their listed watts. So that speaker will handle 200-watt rms if you're lucky. Most 112 cabs handle 250 to 300-watts rms and the DNS112 by DNA handles 450-watts rms or 900-watts peak. Some manufacturers like to quote their peak power because it sounds more impressive than the rms (root mean square) rating. But if it's sold in the US, they are required by law to have an rms rating for you somewhere. So compare those Warwick 112 cabs as 200-watts rms when looking at other cabs.

I have a couple of Eden EX-112 cabs that I believe you can still get through Gear4Music.com. Be sure to click on the flag on the upper right hand side of the page and then pick the country where they will be shipped to. These have Neo speakers and are very compact because hey use a whizzer cone (cone inside a cone) for the high mids and highs and I paid $269 here in the US for them in January of 2018. First one sounded so good the first night I used it I immediately ordered a second one and used the two of them at medium-sized gigs. I believe you can get them for less than that in Europe since they are made at Marshall's cab shop. They weigh 30-lbs each and will handle 300-watts rms (600-watts peak versus the 400-watts Warwick). Slap a 500-watt class D amp on that and you'll have 250-watts for the one speaker or 250-watts each (500 total) if you get two of them.

Here's my small venue set-up with one EX-112 cab and an Eden Class D amp. Notice how nicely it all fits in a chair with my gig bag and amp shoulder bag underneath. It's very compact and easy to move:

 

[pegdrums]

That is indeed quite a tidy setup. Think what Ive definitely learned today is Im not gonna nail it 1st time, so best thing I can do is just get something I can afford and get playing. Im spending more time on gear sites than I am actually playing.....a dangerous rabbit hole!!

 

[Speakz]

The Fender Rumble 500w 210 is a great recommendation. It hits the sweet spot for cost per watt value. They're reliable and plentiful.

TC Electronic has inexpensive heads if you're able to plug into the cabinet of one of those amps at the rehearsal space? You can pick up a 250w head for around $175 used. Assuming it might match up with one of those cabs...

 

[el murdoque]

Try and find an old 4x10 cabinet. Trace Elliot, SWR, Peavey - something from the nineties.
These are big, heavy, and from today's viewpoint not super loud. But since they are 4x10, they will certainly be loud enough.
Depending on where you live, you can find these for less than €200 in working condition.

 

[JimChjones]

Maybe our venues in Ireland are just smaller?

The recommendations you get here for amp size are just alien to me. I've never felt the need for the size of kit here considered essential, which is just well because I never could have afforded it. My experience in the UK is that (outside the metal genre where you can take ear damage as compulsory) if there's PA support then any band requiring more than say 100W and a 1*15 on stage for the bass player needs to think very seriously about their stage volume.

 

[phorm]

I always think of the old tv/vcr combo units. ( I know I am dating myself with the VCR reference.) If one dies, they are both unusable. Modular for the win! Plus you have a lot more options to choose from. Mix and Match to your hearts content.

 

[tvbop]

The Fender Rumble will get the job done, their cheap and plentiful, the key point being push the mids and DO NOT increase the bass knob. Also a bit of acoustic foam inside helps a lot.

 

[Speakz]

A lot about watts and speakers depends on your personal requirements... style of music, venues, and playing technique. Even two manufacturers giving the same wattage can vary greatly depending on the amp design. Tube vs Class D is very different. A 500 watt class D amp in a modular setup of say 2x112's allows you to have a 112 running at 150-250 watts depending on how they're setup. This gives you a nice indoor stage monitor having your own tone behind you and PA support out front

The same rig at an outdoor venue with a rock band... drums, keys, and 2 guitars may not cut it. Depending on your cab efficiency and how the bass is reflected back it can pretty quickly disappear in the mix or become inarticulate without headroom. Generally for us, at the outdoor shows we play, the PA is out front of the band projecting forward and the monitors are not always great. 500 watts through a 212 can be heard and eq'd to be more present for everyone on stage. Most of the regularly gigging players I know playing around here use 2x112's, 2x115's or a 410 outdoors and running 500-800 watts. This gives them articulate tone with decent headroom.

That's why the Rumble 500 is such a great deal... most 500 watt heads by themselves run more than $500. SO getting a 210 with it for similar money gets you on your way to handling most situations. But again YMMV.

 

[tothemax]

I feel your pain, I used to live in the high desert in California and to get to a decent music shop was a 2.5 hour trip to LA. But the up side was that we could make a day of it, hit the shops, maybe catch a show at a club. I got into playing bass on a fluke, auditioned as a guitar player and week later the BL handed me a bass and said "we voted, you're the new bass player". I picked up a Behringer Ultra Bass BX600 for $40 US with crackling speaker at a yard sale and ordered a no name 12" Neo Bass speaker for around $50 US. Used that for few years in that band, wasn't the best, but it did the job.

I guess my point is that if can find something that will make do within your budget, go for it. Then keep your eye open for the rig that you want, it might just show up in your price range. I've never been a go in debt for the "right" gear type (music is also a part time thing for me). As a plus I've owned and tried some pretty cool gear over the years that I would never have gone for other than it showed up in my budget. Sometimes it helps to be patient and keep your options open.

Last week I was in a shop and in the used section found a late model Vox AC-15C1 for great price. I made a deal trading an "OK" Fender amp and a few old pedals plus $20 in cash (about $300 US). I've always wanted a nice VOX guitar amp, it's not the British hand wired version but it still sounds great. I learned that while vintage gear is pretty cool, it's expensive to maintain.

 

[brocket]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

TC Electronic has inexpensive heads...You can pick up a 250w head for around $175 used.

I use the TC Electronic BH250 with the Warwick 2x8 and 1x12. It does seem to punch above its weight. I have done shows without PA support using just the 1x12 before and it was fine. HUGE caveat to that is that while we are a 6 piece with drums and electric guitar, the lead folks play acoustic guitar/mandolin/banjo, so everyone plays with a light touch- the electric guitarist uses a 20 watt amp. I wouldn't put it up against full guitar stacks or anything obviously loud, but I have been pretty impressed by it.

 

[mrjim123]

The best way to get started and then increase your volume later is to initially buy either a combo (one with an external speaker jack) or a head + cab. Later buy a second cab, preferably one that matches the initial speaker.

If you're going to play with a drummer, 100 watts and a single 12" speaker may not be enough. If you're budget is really tight you might have to buy used.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Howdy all. Hope ye are well.

New (ish) to bass. Posted previously about a few questions.

Question of the day is as titled......

I have a 20w Warwick blue cab at the moment. Its great for the house and practicing, even playing with another guitarist, quietly going through songs and some theory stuff.

Recently joined a band......Rehearsal room had 2 broken bass amps, so we tried the monitor which didn't work for us.

Point being I need to get a useable amp for rehearsals and small venues.
I have my heart set on a modular rig, links below:

https://www.thomann.de/ie/warwick_gnome.htm
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Idea here is further down the line I can upgrade the head and the cab will handle it.
Also the gnome headsets simple so Ill spend less time fiddling with it.

Here are some combo options:
https://www.thomann.de/ie/fender_rumble_100.htm
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

Combos seem to have more 'options' on them. and less to drag around.

I think I like the less options. Play a Sire V7 yesterday and immediately found there to be too many knobs and options.....lovely bass though.


In your experience what are the pros and cons of each? gigging, rehearsals, recording??

Thanks for reading

I much prefer modular rigs, although in addition to my modular rigs, I have a two of 320 watt Eden Combos. A 210 and a 115 that if needed, I can use both (one slaved) in essence becoming a formidable modular rig of it’s own.

IMO In general a 150 watt combo/ head might be a little underwhelming, especially if you play with a deep bass EQ.

 

[GrooveTheory]

I was combo oriented, but have switched to light-weight modular. Carrying around a large(ish) combo is not as easy as a separate light weight cab and head (with case). Some of the modern d-class heads can even fit in a gig bag! Going modular will also allow you to part-out and part-in gear as your needs change.

 

[bordinco90]

I've always liked combo amps. If you can find the Bugera BXD15A I would get it. It sounds great and hangs with a band.

 

[TrevorG]

I have both and can't decide. My Combo has a 1000watt head, so full power with my 2X10 cab. My modular is only 200watts with a 2X8. The combo sounds fabulous and relatively light for what it is. The modular rig colours the sound of my basses but not in a bad way and weighs about the same as the combo's extension cab. Once you bring in extension cabs I don't see the difference between the two types except in the geography of the head.

 

[mrjim123]

OP, I would ignore the poll results. Most of those voting "modular" are probably not taking into consideration your tight budget, unless they're thinking you're going to buy used. There is, at least in the US, a ton of older, larger used gear available cheap.