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modular rig or combo???

Combo or modular rig?

  • combo

    Votes: 22 15.0%

  • Modular rig

    Votes: 125 85.0%
  • Total voters
    147
#61
pegdrums said:
I have to ask.......Phil Jones amps/ cabs are tiny. 7" drivers or something. Is that an entire other complicated voodoo they employ?
Click to expand...

Yes and No. PJB stuff sounds pristine. Even their smallest amps (I have not heard the one with a single 4" driver yet, but I do own a Double Four) have a pleasant sound and they do not shy away from the low B string either.
However, they are not loud.
They are incredibly loud for their size, yes.
Take a single one of their 4 driver cabs (which is as big as a crate of beer and weighs in at 11kg) and you'll be impressed what that little thing spits out. Then try to do rock with a hard hitting drummer and you're drowned out.

pegdrums said:
That is indeed quite a tidy setup. Think what Ive definitely learned today is Im not gonna nail it 1st time, so best thing I can do is just get something I can afford and get playing. Im spending more time on gear sites than I am actually playing.....a dangerous rabbit hole!!
Click to expand...

This is a good conclusion.
IMO, an amp has to first and foremost amplify your signal to a level where it can be heard in band context.
An amp that sounds like the voice of an Angel but falls short in total output volume loses against an amp that sounds 'meh', but does the necessary volume with ease.
Get the biggest amp your money can buy, ask around musicians if anyone has anything sitting in the attic.
 
#62
el murdoque said:
Try and find an old 4x10 cabinet. Trace Elliot, SWR, Peavey - something from the nineties.
These are big, heavy, and from today's viewpoint not super loud. But since they are 4x10, they will certainly be loud enough.
Depending on where you live, you can find these for less than €200 in working condition.
Click to expand...


As much as id love a 4x10 just wouldn't have the space here. :(
 
#64
pegdrums said:
Howdy all. Hope ye are well.

New (ish) to bass. Posted previously about a few questions.

Question of the day is as titled......

I have a 20w Warwick blue cab at the moment. Its great for the house and practicing, even playing with another guitarist, quietly going through songs and some theory stuff.

Recently joined a band......Rehearsal room had 2 broken bass amps, so we tried the monitor which didn't work for us.

Point being I need to get a useable amp for rehearsals and small venues.
I have my heart set on a modular rig, links below:

https://www.thomann.de/ie/warwick_gnome.htm
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Idea here is further down the line I can upgrade the head and the cab will handle it.
Also the gnome headsets simple so Ill spend less time fiddling with it.

Here are some combo options:
https://www.thomann.de/ie/fender_rumble_100.htm
Invalid Link Removed
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Combos seem to have more 'options' on them. and less to drag around.

I think I like the less options. Play a Sire V7 yesterday and immediately found there to be too many knobs and options.....lovely bass though.


In your experience what are the pros and cons of each? gigging, rehearsals, recording??

Thanks for reading
Click to expand...

I personally use a Peavey Max 100 Combo for noodling around at home and don't have much experience with Cabs, but I can say that they are without a doubt better if you're gigging. If you're from Europe and use Thomann mostly, get a head from Harley Benton - they've never disappointed me with their basses and I've heard that the amps are great value as well. Otherwise get a used Acoustic, Peavey, Hartke, or Ampeg head with at least 400w if you're gigging. As for Cabs, most 4x10s are pretty nice.

Take this with a grain of salt, none of it is based on personal experience.
 
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#66
JimChjones said:
The recommendations you get here for amp size are just alien to me. I've never felt the need for the size of kit here considered essential, which is just well because I never could have afforded it. My experience in the UK is that (outside the metal genre where you can take ear damage as compulsory) if there's PA support then any band requiring more than say 100W and a 1*15 on stage for the bass player needs to think very seriously about their stage volume.
Click to expand...

Was talking to the bass player in my old band and he uses a 100w Amp 1x15 combo. Master at 4 and d.i. out. He's out there earning a buck gigging around. Pub gigs and the odd wedding.

I was starting to wondering about the size of some stuff mentioned, as I said, Ive never seen any bass player Ive gigged with turn up with any more than a 2 speaker cab.
 
#68
Speakz said:
A lot about watts and speakers depends on your personal requirements... style of music, venues, and playing technique. Even two manufacturers giving the same wattage can vary greatly depending on the amp design. Tube vs Class D is very different. A 500 watt class D amp in a modular setup of say 2x112's allows you to have a 112 running at 150-250 watts depending on how they're setup. This gives you a nice indoor stage monitor having your own tone behind you and PA support out front

The same rig at an outdoor venue with a rock band... drums, keys, and 2 guitars may not cut it. Depending on your cab efficiency and how the bass is reflected back it can pretty quickly disappear in the mix or become inarticulate without headroom. Generally for us, at the outdoor shows we play, the PA is out front of the band projecting forward and the monitors are not always great. 500 watts through a 212 can be heard and eq'd to be more present for everyone on stage. Most of the regularly gigging players I know playing around here use 2x112's, 2x115's or a 410 outdoors and running 500-800 watts. This gives them articulate tone with decent headroom.

That's why the Rumble 500 is such a great deal... most 500 watt heads by themselves run more than $500. SO getting a 210 with it for similar money gets you on your way to handling most situations. But again YMMV.
Click to expand...


Yea, I priced the rumble 500 as a head and cab and its eye watering. Don't see myself having too many outdoor gigs here but yea rumble 500 is future-proofed.
Also what is ymmv?
 
#69
tvbop said:
The Fender Rumble will get the job done, their cheap and plentiful, the key point being push the mids and DO NOT increase the bass knob. Also a bit of acoustic foam inside helps a lot.
Click to expand...

If it's a 500W Rumble then yeah. But if it's 100W that the OP mentioned, maybe not.
 
#70
tothemax said:
ISometimes it helps to be patient and keep your options open.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. And nice to hear of someone getting out and doing it with a basic little bit of kit. At the start of my drumming days I was a gear freak. Nowadays, a basic second hand 4 piece with nice heads, good cymbals, and decent hardware all second hand. Made good money on that kit.

There is definitely a 'newness' excitement happening!
 
#72
el murdoque said:
Yes and No. PJB stuff sounds pristine. Even their smallest amps (I have not heard the one with a single 4" driver yet, but I do own a Double Four) have a pleasant sound and they do not shy away from the low B string either.
However, they are not loud.
They are incredibly loud for their size, yes.
Take a single one of their 4 driver cabs (which is as big as a crate of beer and weighs in at 11kg) and you'll be impressed what that little thing spits out. Then try to do rock with a hard hitting drummer and you're drowned out.



This is a good conclusion.
IMO, an amp has to first and foremost amplify your signal to a level where it can be heard in band context.
An amp that sounds like the voice of an Angel but falls short in total output volume loses against an amp that sounds 'meh', but does the necessary volume with ease.
Get the biggest amp your money can buy, ask around musicians if anyone has anything sitting in the attic.
Click to expand...


Thanks for that
 
#74
pegdrums said:
So after much reading I am 80% leaning this way:

[This invalid link has been removed]
OR
https://www.thomann.de/ie/tc_electronic_bq500_bass_head.htm
PLUS
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800w (OR 500W) head into a 2x10.

This, to me any way, will be great. Amp into pocket on gig bag, bass over shoulders and cab in hand. Nice.

The rumble 500 would definitely be my choice of amp but its €250 over budget.
Click to expand...
one more thing
try to get an amp/cab with the same rated wattage... you've got a cab rated for 250w and heads that can go up to 500 and 800w. This is okay BUT you will need to make sure you keep the amp volume low so that it doesnt fry the cab.
 
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#75
The Bugera amps are loud and are solid. They publish their power output as "peak" output. Most of the speakers they are using are 250 watt RMS. The peak power rating will be 4 x RMS...so, think of that 1000 watt Rottweiler as maybe a 250 watt Shepherd.
For all intents and purposes, it is a 250 watt amp.

Behringer states that the amp is capable of 1000 watts "independent of speaker protection and limiters." Here is the chart showing which speaker they use.

IMG_20220225_090719.jpg


You can also see that the paper cones are louder...although they may not seem like it in person, due to different frequencies that the aluminum cone will highlight for the human ear.

Regarding Harley Benton gear...it is good. Very good. It has basically the same Ice Power amps (just an older version) than most of the high dollar amps out there. The pre-amp section and power regulation is a weakness in my opinion, but the amps are clean and loud. I own the Block 300B and prefer it over my Eden for some situations.
 
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#76
pegdrums said:
I have to ask.......Phil Jones amps/ cabs are tiny. 7" drivers or something. Is that an entire other complicated voodoo they employ?
Click to expand...

More than one way to skin a cat. Phil Jones is an audio engineering Legend with a capital "L." He has created some of the finest loudspeakers on the planet in the hi-fi audio world before turning to bass speaker production.

Multiple small cones with a larger excursion can easily equal the output of a larger cone. So many factors come into play: cone area, power handling, x-max (how far in and out the cone will travel), sensitivity of the drivers, the construction of the box, and more.

The Phil Jones stuff is for real, but you will need the right tool for the job. I once heard a PJ system that had sixteen (I think) 5" drivers. I have never heard a rig so loud, clean, and aggressive before. But...may not be the tone for you. In the same way, a 2 x 5" speaker system will not keep up with a rock drummer, but may be OK in a small jazz setting.



How do you think the Jones cabinet (6 7" drivers) compares in the link above? You need to listen with headphones.
 
#79
I would really like to try the Eden EX112 (actually two of them) with my WT400. But they are out of stock everywhere. Right now using the WT400 to power a Rumble 210 and 115 stack. The 410xlt would be better but it stays home due to weight. Never liked 210 cab's alone. My recent experience...

Oh and I might add that I do have a Rumble 500 combo but only like it at low volumes. It's looses it's sparkle once a higher volume is required.
 
#80
For cheap, loud power there are a lot more options in the used combo amp market. Heck, for years my home practice amp has been an old Peavey KB-100 keyboard amplifier. It's loud as hell, and when I had an amplifier die, I took this thing to a gig and it was every bit as loud as my $1,000+ boutique rig. Sure, it sounds better with a nice preamp on top, but it's loud, heavy, and cheap.

I started my gigging career 22 years ago with a Peavey 1x15 combo, I think it was a TNT model. There are tons of them still out there in the used market for a couple hundred bucks, and they're practically indestructible.

In the last few years I played some blues gigs on a Fender Rumble 100, it sounded fine and was surprisingly loud enough to keep up with live guitar and drums, but we weren't the loudest band around.

As for upgrades, for a new player I'd say the most important thing is to get something loud enough to play live with, and go rack up a bunch of hours playing with others. You'll learn so much from that, whatever you think you need will be far different after you've played those gigs and put in that work. So there's no point looking for an upgradeable component at this phase because you simply don't know what to look for, or what your own personal needs and sound will be once you have more experience.

I'd go check out pawnshops, used gear listings, and look for a loud, cheap combo amp you can beat the hell out of for a year or two or five. It doesn't even have to say "bass" on it, it just has to make your bass loud and sound decent, which plenty of cheap 1x15 keyboard amps can do.

Once you're loud, put the rest of your budget into lessons and all the stuff you need to play in the band (cables, music stand, fliers, extra drumsticks and guitar strings, a good quality gig and cable bag, etc.) Expect to do a full amplifier-upgrade one day in the future, after you've rocked out extensively and become a more experienced veteran.
 
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