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More IEM questions. But really...
- Thread starter Joe Nerve
- Start date
I've found that comply tips isolate better than my custom moulds.
What I've done that helped me tremendously is running a Tomsline 6 band EQ into the bass channel of my Sennheiser G3 IEM receiver.
Some of my basses either don't cut through in my own mix or have way too much zing and high end.
The signal chain looks something like this:
Bass > optional effects > empress compressor that splits the signal via sidechain.
Main signal > bass amp.
Sidechain > EQ > IEM receiver channel 1.
Channel 2 gets the monitor line.
Sennheiser has something called focus mode, which is basically the equivalent of a blend knob that will favor either channel, with 0 getting a balanced amount.
I would try finding a way to get a 'more me' setup with EQ before shelling out.
I have the Chinese KZ10 pro with foam tips as standard earbuds, and Unique Melody moulds with TripleFi 10's for the customs. I had to put nail polish on the customs to get a good seal, the KZ10 have a great seal right away.
I'll also add that my wired IEM setup, with a rolls pm351 has far superior audio quality to my wireless, which at times will have lower resolution and slightly dirtier signal.
TL; DR
Try running an EQ pedal before your bass monitor in and keep using foam tipped earbuds before spending money on custom IEM.
These also work well (I'm told) if your customs aren't sealing well. But I've also been told that who makes your impressions, and how they're done, makes all the difference in the world.
Your mouth shouldn't be completely closed. And biting down on something seems to help? Maybe someone can correct me on this.
Yes exactly, you bite on a small rubber block thing, either way, customs don't necessarily seal better than foam tips; they are, however, much more comfortable over a longer period of time.
@Joe Nerve, I’ve tried a few things as I’ve been in the same boat as you. Some are super obvious, but what the heck.
—Make sure you use good foam tips. Try the Professional, or “P”, model from Comply. Roll then between your fingers and then cram them in until they just about hit your brain.
—Start your mix with everybody down all the way except bass. You’d be surprised how much you can hear.
—Use a HPF to cut the bass in your IEM’s. Get crazy with it. You’ll get the bass from the FOH subs and the high end from the IEM’s. It might help you bring the overall volume down if you can get the articulation of your bass in your IEM’s and the phat from the subs.
—If you’ve got a stereo mix pan everything except the drums left and right to get some separation between the instruments.
I’m going to try reversing the phase on my mix next gig. That’s a good idea somebody brought up that I’ve not tried before.
—Make sure you use good foam tips. Try the Professional, or “P”, model from Comply. Roll then between your fingers and then cram them in until they just about hit your brain.
—Start your mix with everybody down all the way except bass. You’d be surprised how much you can hear.
—Use a HPF to cut the bass in your IEM’s. Get crazy with it. You’ll get the bass from the FOH subs and the high end from the IEM’s. It might help you bring the overall volume down if you can get the articulation of your bass in your IEM’s and the phat from the subs.
—If you’ve got a stereo mix pan everything except the drums left and right to get some separation between the instruments.
I’m going to try reversing the phase on my mix next gig. That’s a good idea somebody brought up that I’ve not tried before.
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Huge difference with custom molds. You shouldnt have to turn your IEMS up to hear the mix. Thats a result of leakage. A lot of snake oil out there, which might be valid as well, but I took a reference from my drummer who met these , not as well known folks, at NAMM and am extremely happy. Im not an expert and haven't tried a lot of brands, but the bang for the buck here is perfect for me. Folks seem to take allegiance to their great experiences and there are a lot of good brands out there. I just didnt want to drop 800$ on my first try. Not affiliated aside from my drummers contact with them. N IEM Day Perfect Seal
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Makes sense to try customs in your situation.
I assume you've tried other kinds of tips too? If you haven't experimented a lot--they're cheap, may as well order a bunch and see if any work better than the ones you've tried.
Some earplugs come with charts showing attenuation by frequency band. They always seem to attenuate less at lower frequencies. Probably just physics that means that low frequencies are harder to block.
So, standing next to a subwoofer is always going to be a worst case. Worth thinking about whether there's anything to do about stage volume or your position on the stage.
I assume you've tried other kinds of tips too? If you haven't experimented a lot--they're cheap, may as well order a bunch and see if any work better than the ones you've tried.
Some earplugs come with charts showing attenuation by frequency band. They always seem to attenuate less at lower frequencies. Probably just physics that means that low frequencies are harder to block.
So, standing next to a subwoofer is always going to be a worst case. Worth thinking about whether there's anything to do about stage volume or your position on the stage.
sure, for electric/electronic instruments, but: horn players play 'acoustic' instruments --- e.g., a soft trumpet part is still loud, acoustically, if your ear (or a mic) were to be placed 4-6 inches in front of the bell of the instrument. and if they play normally = loud!
per the OP: the IEM threads convinced me that i was not getting the proper seal required for bass players. i'd be in the crowd suggesting that custom molds are nice for comfort, but that the critical seal necessary for bass can be attained with any tip that actually seals out the stage environment! once i found the tips that worked for my ears/canals = great in-ear mixes no matter how loud and crazy the others were --- and that's with three horns (both bands). the proper seal made all 7 or 9 pieces almost disappear on stage (like they were playing in a house way down the street!) unless i turned up their fader in my monitor mix. the best seal will let you turn things down.
TL;DR: once i discovered/had a proper seal: i was protected from everyone else + i had the ability to make a mix that was low volume with as much bass as i wanted/needed. the proper seal made all the difference!
good luck with your IEMs, joe!
s0c9
Supporting Member
64 has (over the last few years) definitely targeted the audiophile market and moved away from the live audio focus they started with !
Actually nothing to do with the build. More so to the difference in the size of my ear canals. Had the right side done 3x, always the same result. Thanks to an acoustic neuroma I no longer have to worry about excessive volume in my right ear.
Sealing has always been the problem for me. I’ve tried a ton of different tips and can get most of them to seal for a few minutes, but then they work their way out again and the low end disappears. Guess I’ve just got big greasy ears. I’m loath to spend a bunch on customs just to find the same problem.
Yep. Those first couple of years when they were starting out in the biz their prices were exceptional
Still, they do make primo stuff today even if it is a bit pricey.
FWIW, the reference above to the importance of the seal between the tip and ear canal is critical. I had a lot of difficulty maintaining a proper seal. Tried a bunch of different tips and almost by accident discovered that my ear canals are rather small, making a proper seal really hard to get/maintain. Went to the smallest diameter compressible foam tips I could find and now it’s much better.
TLDR; get the seal right first, then tweak the mix. Tweaking the mix without a proper seal will not help you…
TLDR; get the seal right first, then tweak the mix. Tweaking the mix without a proper seal will not help you…
Man, I'm old, and broke. I'd go back to using my amp
You and me both.
Also surprised that weddings can be this loud. I guess rock star weddings. Sticking to low paying jazz gigs and acoustic wedding gigs and let the DJ do the rest
I may be just slightly salty about this general trend in the IEM market and mention it too much
I am glad of the newer companies who are filling that market space and catering to working musicians, but i think it's disappointing to see most of the big name brands go the way that they have.Yep. Those first couple of years when they were starting out in the biz their prices were exceptional
I remember it well - they were the value brand, seriously undercutting UE etc! It was when they stopped making non-ADEL/APEX earbuds that they really started to get expensive, as the ones with that feature were the premium models, and suddenly became the only option. I'd never disparage their quality (everyone I know who has a pair loves them) but I think the popularity that they built back then has made them the brand that many people still use as a yardstick for price/driver count etc. I think that that discourages some people who can't afford what they now charge from getting custom IEMs - thinking that they need to spend $1K on something equivalent to 64's 4 driver model (which was always traditionally the one that bassists liked best) in order to get strong bass response. That's the reason why I bang on about this so much, as (thankfully) having a lower budget doesn't need to stop you from having good custom IEMs for bass!
i had the same issue, but i went about it methodically and discovered that i was 'going in the wrong direction' --- i was looking for bigger tips that would "squish" the right way in my "big greasy ears" but i found that it was the smaller-to-medium tips that sealed perfectly without all the slippin' and slidin' no matter how wet/sweaty my ear canals got. edit: i was also looking at the flanged tips because they 'made sense' to me, but i ended up getting a much better seal with small roundish-shaped tips.
different tips for different folks, of course, but the ones i've settled on are cheapies from amazon, and for me: regarding the seal, they're better than the custom molds! who knew?!
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My recollection is that the small ones fall right out without even compressing the foam, but you may well be right. I should order a few different sample kits and try again.
it's worth a try --- different sizes, different shapes...and the possibility that one size/shape works better for only one ear! go slow, be patient, good luck!
Horn can play with dynamics too.sure, for electric/electronic instruments, but: horn players play 'acoustic' instruments --- e.g., a soft trumpet part is still loud, acoustically, if your ear (or a mic) were to be placed 4-6 inches in front of the bell of the instrument. and if they play normally = loud!
per the OP: the IEM threads convinced me that i was not getting the proper seal required for bass players. i'd be in the crowd suggesting that custom molds are nice for comfort, but that the critical seal necessary for bass can be attained with any tip that actually seals out the stage environment! once i found the tips that worked for my ears/canals = great in-ear mixes no matter how loud and crazy the others were --- and that's with three horns (both bands). the proper seal made all 7 or 9 pieces almost disappear on stage (like they were playing in a house way down the street!) unless i turned up their fader in my monitor mix. the best seal will let you turn things down.
View attachment 4426490
TL;DR: once i discovered/had a proper seal: i was protected from everyone else + i had the ability to make a mix that was low volume with as much bass as i wanted/needed. the proper seal made all the difference!
good luck with your IEMs, joe!
It’s not uncommon to have brass and woodwinds wearing in ears for shows in a pit. There are often tracks and live musicians playing a show.
