More P/J questions

[The BATT man]

Hello ALL
Sorry this will be a long setup to ask this question. I have a Jazz bass that is set up with the Relentless P middle and a Model J in bridge, 500K CTS pots, and aside from from the slight vol drop normal when both vol up, this bass is phenomenal. So I have another Jazz I set up with Seymour Duncan HOT P in the neck and Ultra Jazz in the bridge. I have also tried a Squire J bridge, Fender MIM J bridge, with both 250K and 500K pots. Swapped polarity of one P/U. Spent hours scouring the forums. This bass when both vol are dimed, it is thin and horrible and weak, like listening to an AM radio through a 2" speaker-with ALL the wiring & P/U combos. Alone the P is fantastic, and although the bridge is "thinner sounding" alone it is still a good sound, it only occurs with both vol up. My previous bass does not do this to this extent. For my questions A) I am missing something here, both basses are wire conventional V V T jazz bass style. B) IS this something I just have to live with? SD Hot P is 22.3K, the Ultra Jazz is 12.3K and wired series by the pickup ( Red=Hot, Green=ground, White & Black tied together-per Dimarzio diagram) Both basses are wired the same BTW.
Thank you for any and all help!

 

[Malak the Mad]

Mixing and matching random P and J pickups sometimes works but often winds up with an overbearing P pickup and a J pickup that never quite catches up.

This! A thousand times this!

The smart aftermarket pickup makers, Seymour, EMG, etc., of course sell many P and J pickups separately, but also sell matched PJ sets to eliminate the above problem(s), they've already done the math to where you get roughly equal output from the pair.

It's happened to me several times. Not every time, but enough that I'd the frustration was mounting. Then, I bought a matched DiMarzio Sixties P/J set and I'm as happy as a clam with either pickup.

 

[The BATT man]

You’re mixing a Duncan and a DiMarzio.

Because there is no universal standard for wire color, magnet polarity, or coil wind direction, there is a 50/50 chance that pickups from two different manufacturers will be in phase (same polarity) with one another.

The symptoms you describe sound like the two pickups are out of phase (opposite polarity) with one another. Swap the hot and ground leads on just one of your pickups. Doesn’t matter which one. Keep any shield wires connected to ground.

Yes, I have done that. Didnt make a difference either way...which I thought was strange.

 

[The BATT man]

Problem solved! I hope this might help someone else. Apparently you can mix drinks...but not P/U's...lol. I installed the Duncan Hot jazz in the bridge (along with the Hot P neck) and now with both vol all the way up, I get a standard P/J tone, with only slight vol loss as to be expected with the settings. Just a side note, the only pickup from Dimarzio that I have been totally satisfied with is the relentless P middle, that thing is Hot & loud.
Thanks to ALL that have replied!

 

[The BATT man]

DC resistance is not a measure of output.

Granted it’s been many years since I had my Hot P (I learned that I don’t really like P pickups in general), but I remember it being basically the same loudness and tone as the stock Yamaha pickup it replaced.

Thanks, I know DC resistance is not a "hotness" measure, I just included those stats in case there was something i missed.

 

[Malak the Mad]

Apparently you can mix drinks...but not P/U's...lol.

Well, maybe not always, but sometimes luck can strike. It has with me, but that was more the exception than the rule. Sadly, like some newbie stumbling through the dark, I broke up that combo and sold the parts because A.) I didn't know any better to leave it alone and B.) I thought I could do even better the next time around.

Nowadays, I look at it like chemistry…you can mix stuff together to see what happens, but unless you know what you're doing, you might not realize you've mixed clear, odorless nitric acid with clear, odorless glycerol. (Hmmm…perhaps this compound needs to be shaken thoroughly to ensure proper mixing! )

 

[sdjfoh]

I’ve always had good luck with two pickups from diff manufacturers as long as they were rated similar in resistance… with a small lean towards the bridge having a bit higher rating (then adjusting height as needed). I really love my double P w/ an overwound Fralin in the neck and a dimarzio in the bridge position.

 

[Malak the Mad]

I’ve always had good luck with two pickups from diff manufacturers as long as they were rated similar in resistance…

Wow! Nothing more to say there other than well done!

 

[iiipopes]

IS this something I just have to live with?

Yes. 1) The volume drop from having both pickups dimed is a result of the impedance being roughly halved (well, at least dropped if the P-pickup is overwound), and is a characteristic of both J-basses and PJ-basses. 2) Especially if the bridge pickup is in the 70's J-bridge position, and to a lesser extent the 60's J-bridge position, there is less string excursion over the poles than there is over the middle/neck pickup, whether P or J-neck, and therefore less volume and a drop in fundamental. If you raise the J-bridge pickup too much to try to equalize volume, you will get string wobble and reduce sustain, otherwise known by guitar players as Strat-itis.

 

[acebase62]

If one wants a hum cancel J Bass bridge pickup to go with the SD P Bass pickup, SD Apollo J Bass would probably work well.