More P/J questions

[The BATT man]

Hello ALL
Sorry this will be a long setup to ask this question. I have a Jazz bass that is set up with the Relentless P middle and a Model J in bridge, 500K CTS pots, and aside from from the slight vol drop normal when both vol up, this bass is phenomenal. So I have another Jazz I set up with Seymour Duncan HOT P in the neck and Ultra Jazz in the bridge. I have also tried a Squire J bridge, Fender MIM J bridge, with both 250K and 500K pots. Swapped polarity of one P/U. Spent hours scouring the forums. This bass when both vol are dimed, it is thin and horrible and weak, like listening to an AM radio through a 2" speaker-with ALL the wiring & P/U combos. Alone the P is fantastic, and although the bridge is "thinner sounding" alone it is still a good sound, it only occurs with both vol up. My previous bass does not do this to this extent. For my questions A) I am missing something here, both basses are wire conventional V V T jazz bass style. B) IS this something I just have to live with? SD Hot P is 22.3K, the Ultra Jazz is 12.3K and wired series by the pickup ( Red=Hot, Green=ground, White & Black tied together-per Dimarzio diagram) Both basses are wired the same BTW.
Thank you for any and all help!

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Matching the pickups in a set is a good place to start, just like getting matching bass cabs is the best practice, but that doesn't mean a mix will never work.

Check your pickup height, you'd typically want the neck pickup much lower than the bridge one. For volume parity, You may want the neck pickup at half or lower the height of the bridge pickup. This can vary depending on the pickup, but this doesn't cost anything to adjust and try.

On a passive V-V-T layout, just edge off the volume for either neck or bridge a tiny bit and you'll get a jump in volume. With both dimed, there's a noticeable scoop (don't ask me why, that's a question for the EE's here) and taking them off volume parity fixes that immediately. That's one of the reasons I prefer the V-V-T layout on passive two pickup basses.

Ultra Jazz is kinda scooped IME...I'd use a Model J from DiMarzio instead (wired in Series). SD Hot Jazz might work great too, but I've zero experience with that pickup.

Don't neglect the mids on the EQ of your amp, preamp, or modeler. That's where the beef is, which may sound bad solo'd, but will cut you through the mix and sound awesome in the finished product.

 

[RattleSnack]

For a PJ combo bridge pickup, you want lots of output and IMO very nasal pickup. Of course, you may use PJ with VVT however you want, but most players put P on max, then add J depending on the mix and song, anywhere from zero upwards.
In this scenario, dosing J is for more "modern" sound, dense mix (guitars), olaying leads/intros/solos.
So for this application, setup your P pickup typicaly, just like Fender specs on their web site. Then set J volume to max, and change height for pickup until it's balanced with P. You may want to lower P a little, and raise J pretty high. After that, try mixing in J with lower volume and listen for sweet spots.
If none of this works and you can't find sound you like, then that pickup pair doesn't work for you. Change one of them, rinse and repeat.

 

[The BATT man]

Matching the pickups in a set is a good place to start, just like getting matching bass cabs is the best practice, but that doesn't mean a mix will never work.

Check your pickup height, you'd typically want the neck pickup much lower than the bridge one. For volume parity, You may want the neck pickup at half or lower the height of the bridge pickup. This can vary depending on the pickup, but this doesn't cost anything to adjust and try.

On a passive V-V-T layout, just edge off the volume for either neck or bridge a tiny bit and you'll get a jump in volume. With both dimed, there's a noticeable scoop (don't ask me why, that's a question for the EE's here) and taking them off volume parity fixes that immediately. That's one of the reasons I prefer the V-V-T layout on passive two pickup basses.

Ultra Jazz is kinda scooped IME...I'd use a Model J from DiMarzio instead (wired in Series). SD Hot Jazz might work great too, but I've zero experience with that pickup.

Don't neglect the mids on the EQ of your amp, preamp, or modeler. That's where the beef is, which may sound bad solo'd, but will cut you through the mix and sound awesome in the finished product.

Thanks for the response-I have tried p/u height adj. And yes if I roll off the Bridge vol from say 12 to 11 the tone comes back. I do understand the effect of parallel pickups and "drop" I have wired some of my other straight jazz basses to series/parallel with the pups. I guess what bugs me the most my other P/J set up does not do this. Maybe it is all related to the fact of using Duncan & Dimarzio together. I have tried both of the Dimarzio Model J and Ultra Jazz in other jazz basses, and I did not like them (sound) BTW the Relentless P middle is a great pup. Yes in the Purple bass (the one I am having issues with) I have swapped 3 different bridge pups in and out, Mode J, Ultra J Fender MIM J, and I even tried a cheap stock Squire J, no change.

 

[The BATT man]

So I just broke down and ordered a Seymour Duncan Hot Jazz to match the Hot P I will see how that goes

 

[ctmullins]

You’re mixing a Duncan and a DiMarzio.

Because there is no universal standard for wire color, magnet polarity, or coil wind direction, there is a 50/50 chance that pickups from two different manufacturers will be in phase (same polarity) with one another.

The symptoms you describe sound like the two pickups are out of phase (opposite polarity) with one another. Swap the hot and ground leads on just one of your pickups. Doesn’t matter which one. Keep any shield wires connected to ground.

 

[erratick]

Did you check the phase and/or polarity on the pickups? You sound like they're out of phase. Swap wires.

Also I find that in a P/J, you actually want a normal or lower P and a hotter J. It's hard to get anything like a vol match without unless it is designed to match.

 

[CoughSyrup]

Not an expert, but sounds like you might be wiring the J pup out of phase with the P.

 

[BassicJazzy]

I agree with @ctmullins about the pickups being out of phase. I had a bass from the 90's made in Japan that was a P/J and they wired the p'ups out of phase. It was tricky getting the balance to a point where it sounded good, when both were selected.

 

[60bass]

You’re mixing a Duncan and a DiMarzio.

Because there is no universal standard for wire color, magnet polarity, or coil wind direction, there is a 50/50 chance that pickups from two different manufacturers will be in phase (same polarity) with one another.

The symptoms you describe sound like the two pickups are out of phase (opposite polarity) with one another. Swap the hot and ground leads on just one of your pickups. Doesn’t matter which one. Keep any shield wires connected to ground.

I agree with this 100%. Every single time I have run into this issue swapping the hot and ground wires on the jazz pickup solved it. If I run into a situation especially when I have pickups from different manufacturers and it sounds like that the first thing I do is to swap those wires it's a lot quicker simpler and easier than ordering another pickup. And for me it has always worked.

 

[sdjfoh]

A hotter J pickup with higher output rating would help here. The SD is bonkers hot comparatively so it’ll overpower that jazz pup always.

 

[ctmullins]

A hotter J pickup with higher output rating would help here. The SD is bonkers hot comparatively so it’ll overpower that jazz pup always.

lol.

I think not. The Duncan Hot P isn’t particularly hot.

 

[BeyondFiredUp]

Matching the pickups in a set is a good place to start, just like getting matching bass cabs is the best practice, but that doesn't mean a mix will never work.

Check your pickup height, you'd typically want the neck pickup much lower than the bridge one. For volume parity, You may want the neck pickup at half or lower the height of the bridge pickup. This can vary depending on the pickup, but this doesn't cost anything to adjust and try.

On a passive V-V-T layout, just edge off the volume for either neck or bridge a tiny bit and you'll get a jump in volume. With both dimed, there's a noticeable scoop (don't ask me why, that's a question for the EE's here) and taking them off volume parity fixes that immediately. That's one of the reasons I prefer the V-V-T layout on passive two pickup basses.

Ultra Jazz is kinda scooped IME...I'd use a Model J from DiMarzio instead (wired in Series). SD Hot Jazz might work great too, but I've zero experience with that pickup.

Don't neglect the mids on the EQ of your amp, preamp, or modeler. That's where the beef is, which may sound bad solo'd, but will cut you through the mix and sound awesome in the finished product.

^^^This. All of it. And may I add, never think the tone knob should stay in one spot. Different settings can sound much better in the mix by backing off, sometimes substantially insteading of diming it every song. The song dictates the tone knob as mids are accentuated diferently.

 

[J Wilson]

Mixing and matching random P and J pickups sometimes works but often winds up with an overbearing P pickup and a J pickup that never quite catches up.

The smart aftermarket pickup makers, Seymour, EMG, etc., of course sell many P and J pickups separately, but also sell matched PJ sets to eliminate the above problem(s), they've already done the math to where you get roughly equal output from the pair. Even smarter ones use a stacked or side x side humbucking Jazz, as a single coil way back there has a hill to climb matching a humbucking pickup under a big loud spot. And you eliminate any and all single coil noise.

 

[HardNHeavy]

i had a set of the Ultra's in my jazz bass, i hated them...out of the box they sounded out of phase. Switched to the model J DP122.
But All that mixing and trying to match all those outputs and frequencies, different pots etc. somethings bound to go haywire!

 

[Blues Daddy]

I have a PJ with EMG's installed . . . . my tonal preferences are to either (1.) use the P by itself (sounds beefy and solid) - or (2.) for a growlier less-thick tone use the J all the way up and the P somewhere less than half way (just enough to help the J which sounds too thin just by itself). I like using these pickup selections for songs from Motown to Cream.

 

[bassdude51]

I'm sorry if off commenting on your thread.

I used to have a P/J. Standard 11k ohm P pickup + standard 7k ohm J bridge p/u. Absolutely didn't like this bass! Nothing beats a standard J Bass!!!! J + J.

Gonna go P/J? Get a bridge pickup that's at least 11k or higher.

My .02 cents.

Good luck with your P/J pickup matching.

 

[sdjfoh]

SD Hot P is 22.3K, the Ultra Jazz is 12.3K

lol.

I think not. The Duncan Hot P isn’t particularly hot.

22.3K isn’t hot?

Pretty sure the bridge pickup should have higher output than the neck pickup for it to work well. I haven’t bothered with Duncans as I don’t like the sound much.

 

[waveman]

I ran into a similar issue wiring my new bass up with Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounder J bridge and Fender Custom 62 P pickup. I just swapped the positive and negative on the volume pot for the P pickup and it works as expected. Now I want a phase switch because there were a couple sweet spots I really liked using the out of phase setup by using one pickup as a the dominant sound with the other acting like a filter.

 

[ctmullins]

22.3K isn’t hot?

Pretty sure the bridge pickup should have higher output than the neck pickup for it to work well. I haven’t bothered with Duncans as I don’t like the sound much.

DC resistance is not a measure of output.

Granted it’s been many years since I had my Hot P (I learned that I don’t really like P pickups in general), but I remember it being basically the same loudness and tone as the stock Yamaha pickup it replaced.