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More sound from a 6"

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by qts, Mar 2, 2008.


  1. qts

    qts

    May 15, 2006
    Ijmuiden-holland
    I'm quite satisfied about my DIY cab, 12+6 , but wonder if it's posible to get more sound from the la6-cbmr.
    To me it could be more if i take a lower cross over point, say 500hz in stead of 800hz which was recommended me.

    Another idea is to build a cab with a Delta12LF + B102 to get more cone area thus more sound.
    I found some interesting threads about this combination.
    I know, the B102 is a mid bass driver and is efficient above ~100hz.
    Bgavin recommend to cross over at 500hz, the same i want with the la6-cbmr.

    Which of these two ideas will be the best?

    Thanks for the help in advance
     
  2. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    Is this an issue with the relative sensitivity of the drivers? If so, then one thought is to simply fix it with EQ. My rationale is that the amount of power above a few hundred Hz is a fraction of your total power budget, so you could bump it up without too much of a penalty in overall volume.
     
  3. qts

    qts

    May 15, 2006
    Ijmuiden-holland
    Fdeck, i know we have allmost the same cab configurations,but i think you have a advance in the mids with the DL12II and yes EQ is a solution but what about the configuration D12LF+10 ?
    I want to go on with the Delta because of the lows, i'ts difficult to audiolise how the Delta will sound with a 10
    To my simple mind it should be louder
     
  4. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    It may be, but that has nothing to do with using a ten, it has to do with the driver sensitivity. If the LA6 isn't loud enough to keep up with the Delta 12 LF you need a driver with higher sensitivity, not a larger driver. All you'll gain by lowering the crossover point is to put more stress on the LA6 and reduce available headroom. Adding a second LA6 would give you 6dB additional sensitivity, but you'd also have to change the crossover components for a 4 ohm load.
     
  5. qts

    qts

    May 15, 2006
    Ijmuiden-holland
    thanks Bill, i don't see any spectacular difference if i compare the spl specs from the B102 v.s the La6.
     
  6. LA6-CBMR has a steep drop right at 500 Hz. If you are using a passive crossover, this might leave a hole in the response. It is less a problem with 24dB/octave active crossovers. Crossing over higher up, i.e. 800 Hz, starts to run out of linear response on the 12. IMO, not an ideal match.

    The LA6 has 100 SPL sensitivity at 500 hz... this is +5dB higher than 12LF at 500 Hz. This will give you a noticeable ragged edge that will probably be heard as shrill or harsh without EQ.

    The B102 with whizzer cone is a much closer match to 12LF, and 12LF has a slight advantage. This will give you a warmer, more mellow sound without EQ. The 10" is directional above 1600 Hz, so be aware of this. 95 SPL isn't all that much, so don't expect a lot of noise, especially since 12LF is limited to about 100w before exceeding Xmax.

    I am disenchanted with 12s for bass. I've built 12LFa and 2512-II and I'm not totally thrilled. Both require substantial box volumes for optimal tuning, yet both run out of Xmax easily. Tone is good, etc, but I want more than 100w if I have to use a large box. BTW, 2512-II really shines in Top boxes such as Bill's OT12 and DR280.

    3015LF and two Delta Pro 8B are the ticket to More Watts. The F3 for 3015LF is about 4 Hz higher than 12LFA, but this combo will take the full 450w without hitting Xmax. Sensitivity is right at 100 SPL, which is +5 more than 12LF. The additional wattage will add another +6dB over 12LFa. This makes 3015LF +11dB louder than 12LF at full power. A 10dB difference sounds twice as loud to the ear.

    I'm waiting to build 3015LF/8B for myself because the 8B are not yet available from my wholesaler. This combination is killer for both full range electric bass and keyboards. I play both with two different bands, so it would be an ideal medium size box for my needs.
     
  7. qts

    qts

    May 15, 2006
    Ijmuiden-holland
    thanks Bgavin for the summary.
    I want to give some response to the paragraphs,

    1# Yes i use a passive crossover, so pity for the hole in the respons, and i'm not planning to use a active crossover or bi amping.

    2# Eventough i can get more sensitivity from the 6 at 500hz, i don't want a harsh sounding mid driver by playing on the edge between 500~800hz

    3# No, i don't gonna spend double the money for a B102 and expect not that much noise

    4# The difference between you and me is, you are not satisfy with 100 watts, but i do for what i need it.
    My cab have no optimal tuning ( ~4cft), but sbb4 as you recommended me

    5# The 3015LF seems to be the winner with all the plusses but i get focused on 12s because of the thight bass sound.
    Years ago, 15s where popular, i play with H and H, Fane, Gaus, but the problem was, i couldn't here my self on stage there where no mids, and saw the people with the fingers in there ears

    6# maybe in the future if i need more power,i'm gonna build this perfect configuration 3015LF/8B

    Qustion; Bgavin, what do you think about Bill's idea,to use 2x6'' for more sensivity thus more noise.
    To me it's logical, not the cone area but the sensitivy.

    Tanks a lot
     

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