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Deleted member 165050
Guest
This is the way to go... I got myself a Rolls PM351 a while back and it cures the problem of not enough bass in the bassist's IEMs. Only problem is I need a physical link to it so can't go cordless. Must remember that next time I cartwheel over the drum riser in the middle of my bass solo.
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Deleted member 165050
Guest
Agreed. Using a Rolls PM351 is a very simple way to adapt to any gigging situation. Nt ever situation is going to have a digital board where you can control your own mix via tablet.
I use a PM351 and it really works great in pretty much every situation I've encountered. It's built like a tank, flexible, plenty of gain, sounds really good, and it's affordable. Another benefit is if you are in a situation where they cannot provide you a monitor feed, you can hook a mic up to the PM351 and use that as your overall live mix. Works really well. I actually have a mic hooked up to it all of the time whether I'm singing or not so I can mix in some live stage ambience.
I also do not plug my bass directly into the PM351. I have found it to be much more enjoyable playing wise to have a bass pre feed the PM351. I use the Mesa Subway DI for this. I send the 1/4" preamp out of the DI to the PM351 instrument in and it sounds great. Then if I have a rig on stage as well, I just use the thru output of the DI to feed my stage amp.
Obviously if you are lucky enough to get a monitor feed from the sound guy you can plug it into the line input on the PM351. And if you want to go wireless IEM, you can always take the XLR line out of the PM351 and feed it to your wireless IEM unit. I actually will be doing that very soon. My Sennheiser wireless IEM should be arriving today.
It's great to be able to grab a knob quickly to make an adjustment to your monitor mix on the fly. Even though I'm lucky enough to have a tablet to do my monitor mixing (we have an X32), it's much easier to grab a knob quickly on the fly while playing than making an adjustment on your tablet. After all, who doesn't enjoy grabbing knobs?? hehehe
FYI, I know that at least the Shure PSM systems have multiple inputs (with thrus) so you can run the same kind of "more-me" mixing that you guys are talking about with the PM351 but it's wireless.
I use the PSM200. It has two inputs on the main box and an additional 1/4" line level input right on the body pack that you can mix into the ears; sort of turns the body pack into a mini headphone practice amp if you want. Neat little option.
I use the PSM200. It has two inputs on the main box and an additional 1/4" line level input right on the body pack that you can mix into the ears; sort of turns the body pack into a mini headphone practice amp if you want. Neat little option.
I used the PSM200 about 10 years ago and I did not like the sound quality. But I'm not sure if it was the shure mixer interface, or the shure wired belt pack that was causing the problem. It seemed to really compress my signal and made my bass feel small in my ears. Perhaps they improved the technology now.
Interesting. I thought it sounded great. Could be either your signal or the buds. I was coming from a QSC Touchmix and se425 buds. Ultra clear. I did also notice that sometimes you need to switch channels if there's interference.
Thanks for the feedback. As I said this was 10 years ago, and we didn't have the equipment we have now. The signal from the monitor send was fine. We verified it by putting it into a wedge. The problem had nothing to do with clarity. It was the limiting circuit that Shure implements either in the mixer or receiver. It was squashing the signal.
Nevertheless I'm a happy camper now with my setup. Sounds fantastic.
s0c9
Supporting Member
I posted a pic of our IEM rig above.. We went thru numerous issues with wedges, ringing out monitors, getting FOH to dial it all in. UGH !!! :***:
We each own our IEM rigs, and the single rack houses the whole thing. One guy can move it around easily.
Yes, we have a dual-band router that was NOT in the picture (only use 5Ghz band) that we use for wireless connectivity for each of our IEM mixes via iPad/Android devices. The 5Ghz band avoids the 2.4GHz clutter from other routers in venues and cell phones. The router is also set up with no SSID broadcast, WPA2 security and non-standard 192.168.*.* DHCP range, to keep the router "hidden" from 2.4Ghz traffic "pings" and typical interference. No dropped connections. It's mounted on a full-height mic stand and sits behind the rack.
I check which frequencies (channels) are in use at each venue and switch our router to an open or least busy channel (or not). That takes about 2 sec at most venues, as 5Ghz band is wide open..
That's all up front work, with minimal ongoing effort.
Other than connecting the splitter snake XLR's to it, it's power up and go.
FOH NEVER has control of our stage mix, and it takes seconds for each of us to adjust from the prior gig (settings are saved for each venue).
I hear the same mix in my ears no matter where I am on the stage.
We gig pretty much every weekend, so for us, the expense was WELL WORTH it!
If you gig once a month, the Rolls approach is far cheaper.
Here's crowd pic from Sat night gig (one of 4 nights we played last week).
YMMV
We each own our IEM rigs, and the single rack houses the whole thing. One guy can move it around easily.
Yes, we have a dual-band router that was NOT in the picture (only use 5Ghz band) that we use for wireless connectivity for each of our IEM mixes via iPad/Android devices. The 5Ghz band avoids the 2.4GHz clutter from other routers in venues and cell phones. The router is also set up with no SSID broadcast, WPA2 security and non-standard 192.168.*.* DHCP range, to keep the router "hidden" from 2.4Ghz traffic "pings" and typical interference. No dropped connections. It's mounted on a full-height mic stand and sits behind the rack.
I check which frequencies (channels) are in use at each venue and switch our router to an open or least busy channel (or not). That takes about 2 sec at most venues, as 5Ghz band is wide open..
That's all up front work, with minimal ongoing effort.
Other than connecting the splitter snake XLR's to it, it's power up and go.
FOH NEVER has control of our stage mix, and it takes seconds for each of us to adjust from the prior gig (settings are saved for each venue).
I hear the same mix in my ears no matter where I am on the stage.
We gig pretty much every weekend, so for us, the expense was WELL WORTH it!
If you gig once a month, the Rolls approach is far cheaper.
Here's crowd pic from Sat night gig (one of 4 nights we played last week).
YMMV
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OH YA you're absolutely right. The Shures are very conservative with the limiter - I think they do it to protect high-end bud drivers from blowing or something, who knows. But I definitely noticed that if you're not very careful with gain and input level then they do sound like crap lol but when they're dialed in they're great.
Well the venues we're playing this year are all very well equipped, most of them with Behringers big brother so this is a good idea.
And actually that opens up a lot of options for us having control on stage. Although we're fairly set and forget, or rather unless any things really interfering on stage we just get in with putting on a show.
I need to familiarise myself with the apps/software/mixers.
I posted a pic of our IEM rig above.. We went thru numerous issues with wedges, ringing out monitors, getting FOH to dial it all in. UGH !!! :***:
We each own our IEM rigs, and the single rack houses the whole thing. One guy can move it around easily.
Yes, we have a dual-band router that was NOT in the picture (only use 5Ghz band) that we use for wireless connectivity for each of our IEM mixes via iPad/Android devices. The 5Ghz band avoids the 2.4GHz clutter from other routers in venues and cell phones. The router is also set up with no SSID broadcast, WPA2 security and non-standard 192.168.*.* DHCP range, to keep the router "hidden" from 2.4Ghz traffic "pings" and typical interference. No dropped connections. It's mounted on a full-height mic stand and sits behind the rack.
I check which frequencies (channels) are in use at each venue and switch our router to an open or least busy channel (or not). That takes about 2 sec at most venues, as 5Ghz band is wide open..
That's all up front work, with minimal ongoing effort.
Other than connecting the splitter snake XLR's to it, it's power up and go.
FOH NEVER has control of our stage mix, and it takes seconds for each of us to adjust from the prior gig (settings are saved for each venue).
I hear the same mix in my ears no matter where I am on the stage.
We gig pretty much every weekend, so for us, the expense was WELL WORTH it!
If you gig once a month, the Rolls approach is far cheaper.
Here's crowd pic from Sat night gig (one of 4 nights we played last week).
YMMV
Yeah I gig every week as well but I still use the Rolls PM351 integrated with my setup with the Android tablet. My main band is very equipped as well. Our sound engineer has a Behringer X32 for FOH and Behringer X32 rack which he uses as a snake head and to feed us our independent monitor mixes. I use the Behringer Android app because it's better than the iPad version (more customization and control).
I agree, my mix is always consistent as well and it's a pleasure to have that control. But as the bands energy changes, there could be a few times throughout the night where I may want just a bit more me, or more ambient, or overall monitor feed. I just find it easier to grab the Rolls for a quick adjustment while playing than trying to make a quick adjustment on the tablet. That could be a bit cumbersome to adjust quickly on the fly. I also prefer the sound of my bass and mic direct rather than coming back from the monitor mix. I actually wind up muting my mic and bass on the Android app since I already have it direct into my Rolls. It just provides me one more layer of quick control and it honestly sounds better too. Having the Rolls in my arsenal also enables me to do gigs when bands do not have the ability to provide me a monitor mix via app.
The Rolls is one more thing to set up, but I feel it's worth it, even in tandem with the Behringer Android app. Different strokes for different folks.
s0c9
Supporting Member
Agreed.. Each to their own.. The worst part is having to go back to a wedge mix after being "spoiled"..LOLThe Rolls is one more thing to set up, but I feel it's worth it, even in tandem with the Behringer Android app. Different strokes for different folks.
Comparatively horrendous!
Couldn't agree more! I don't think I can ever go back to a wedge!Agreed.. Each to their own.. The worst part is having to go back to a wedge mix after being "spoiled"..LOL
Comparatively horrendous!
What do you run for the "*.*" part? I've been running the addresses the router hands out at 192.168.1.100 with a range to 110. I haven't had any trouble to speak of, except when someone has an iPhone 4 or 4S that won't run on 5gHz. And that's hardly worth mentioning, but once, the guys enjoyed watching him push a fader on the phone and the fader moves 5 seconds later...
.EDIT: About wedges...I've used IEMs for 3 years with maybe one or two exceptions. I did a gig with the 14-piece horn band a month ago. Very tiny place, small amp, band really packed tightly. I thought I'd forgo the IEMs as I was very close to the guitarist's wedge. OH. MY. GOSH!! Never again. My ear were ringing more than I've noticed in many years. Even though we were in a small place and the horns tried to play softer, they still had to play the show and it was LOUD.The IEMs offer great hearing protection as well as much better monitoring. Never, ever again, will I use a wedge or go without my IEMs, unless it's a light jazz gig where the volume is way under control.
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Running your own IEM's is the key. It can be a nightmare to rely on the soundguy to set them up especially if you're picky about what you want in your mix. With my other gigs either I bring my Mackie DL1608 and we run IEM's from an Ipad/Iphone app or I just suck it up and deal with wedges.
My "band" is just a two guy band with midi backing tracks. My buddy is old school (think smile EQ) and loves his wedges. So I just point the wedge away from me and use my IEM's. We have two monitor channels so one is mine and one is his. I use the beringer personal mixer just as a headphone amplifier and volume control. I find it best for balancing vocals because when I sing with earplugs I hear too much of myself through resonance in my head and can't blend well.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but people have mentioned using a personal mixer without a house monitor feed. So what are you mixing? Just your mic and your bass? How do you get everything else?
Cheers!
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but people have mentioned using a personal mixer without a house monitor feed. So what are you mixing? Just your mic and your bass? How do you get everything else?
Cheers!
I think the one dude said in places with no monitor feed he places a microphone on stage and puts that into his Rolls PM as the 'monitor mix'. Could work.
Hey how's that 2 man + MIDI thing working out? I've been considering doing the same thing! PM me if you are so inclined to tell me about it, don't want to derail the thread.
Yes that would be me and that is correct.
I would use a mic as an ambient mix of the band into my Rolls. If it's a gig where I have to sing too, then I use an additional mic with mic pre into the line input of the Rolls as my ambient mix. I have an Apogee One that has a built in mic which I use for that application. Then I take the line out of the Apogee One and feed it into the line input into the rolls. Works well.
It's not perfect in those situations, especially if one member is playing louder than the others so the ambient mic placement is key. In any event, I would rather deal with a less than perfect mix in those situations than ruin my hearing. One gig I play at, the band leader is notorious for making everyone turn their amps down so low that all you here is drums and vocals. Hilarious. I don't even bother trying to discuss it with him. I bring my amp and tell him to adjust the my stage volume as he sees fit for the gig, especially since I have my bass in my ears and control my personal volume without affecting the house. Works like a charm, and he is happy to have the control. So the last gig I did with him I had people coming up to me after the first set saying you look like you play really well but we can't hear you at all. At that point I point them to the band leader and tell them he is in control of my stage volume.
Wonderful to avoid confrontation and just do the gig. The gig is now fun to sub since I use my IEM's on it and don't have to deal with the BS. LOL!
s0c9
Supporting Member
Geri, I looked for my post where I explained all that but couldn't find it. So, here we go.What do you run for the "*.*" part? I've been running the addresses the router hands out at 192.168.1.100 with a range to 110. I haven't had any trouble to speak of, except when someone has an iPhone 4 or 4S that won't run on 5gHz. And that's hardly worth mentioning, but once, the guys enjoyed watching him push a fader on the phone and the fader moves 5 seconds later...
Basically, if you take you router off the 19.168.1.* range, you won't get pinged if your SSID is not being broadcast.
So making the 3rd node something other than "1" (between 2 and 255) obfuscates the router and your network.
The following example applies to any number you pick as the 3rd node.
PART 1:
Set your router IP to 192.168.37.1 Set it up as DHCP and set the DHCP starting node to be non-standard - something like 102, or 155.
That will give you (255 - n) dynamic IP's available from the starting point eg: 192.168.37.102 -->> 193.168.37.255
You are NOT going to have 60 devices connecting, so you could go as high as starting at 192.168.37.220.
Set your console to a static IP like 192.168.37.55 (outside the DHCP range).
Give the router a simple SSID, you CAN turn off SSID broadcast, but we don't.
Turn on WPA2 wireless security. Again.. keep it relatively simple and easy to remember as it's highly UNLIKELY anyone will be trying to hack your network during a gig.
That should keep any interference at a minimum.
PART 2: Get a tool like "[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]".
Before each gig, run it. It will display a graph of all networks it finds (see pic below) and the channels they are using in both 2.4 and 5Ghz bands.
If your router's 2.4Ghz chosen channel (1-12) is cluttered with other access points, login as admin and change your channel to the least busy. Channels 1 6 and 11 do NOT overlap, so those are good starting points. IIRC - channel 1 or 6 tends to be the default 2.4 channel on many routers. Note that channels 13 and 14 are NOT active in the US, but part of the 24Ghz spectrum.
Do the same for the 5Ghz channels. None of them overlap so that's not an issue.
Should be all set.
