Muscian's Friend? Really??

[JeffLeft]

Guitar Center will sell you a bass that's been played by a thousand people or have been returned after 45 days as a new bass. Sometimes they will claim that they don't have a brand new in box bass. Back when I purchased what I thought was a brand new Fender Elite, they told me that the display bass was new and it was the only natural ash Elite that they had in stock. When I got the bass home and started setting it up I noticed that the frets where horrible and had some wear. So when I drove back to return it I noticed another Elite hanging in the same spot where I just bought mine from 3 hours earlier. I ask the salesman that sold me the bass, why did you tell me that it was your last one, the look on his face said a lot and he said that I could exchange it for the new one on the wall. That's when I was done buying anything from GC. Chuck Levin's is the only place that I shop! There's a reason why one store has been going strong since 1958!

 

[MordBass]

Isn't/wasn't that Mitt Romney's company? Seems I have heard that name recently. Ahh, found it - this is Rolling Stone's take on how Bain Capital destroys companies: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital - wonder if that is still going on with places like GC?

Yup. Vulture Capitalism at its best.

 

[jbhaugh]

I've had good experiences with GC, MF, and Music123. Been shopping online for 20 years and never experienced any of these horror stories.

I used to work at a pulp mill. They had a sign up that said, "X Number of days without an Accident." Never could get past 30 days. I think TB should have a Sticky Thread on "How Many Days Since the Last MF/GC Bash Thread." I'll bet it will never make it past 30 days.

Glad you've only had good experiences. I think most people who are regular shoppers at GC/MF (including myself) have not been so lucky. Just last week I returned a pedal that was sold as brand new but was obviously B-stock or a customer return, but they didn't disclose that or give me a discount when I pointed it out. They guy in the store just said, "we have a good return policy if you want to order a different one."

This wouldn't bother me if they were up-front about it. But they have a pattern of sending customers returned merchandise misrepresented as brand new. If I'm paying new-in-box money I want NIB merchandise.

 

[MordBass]

I've had good experiences with GC, MF, and Music123. Been shopping online for 20 years and never experienced any of these horror stories.

I used to work at a pulp mill. They had a sign up that said, "X Number of days without an Accident." Never could get past 30 days. I think TB should have a Sticky Thread on "How Many Days Since the Last MF/GC Bash Thread." I'll bet it will never make it past 30 days.

It's great that you haven't had any issues but that doesn't discredit anybody else's experiences. Let's say a car company sold 1,000,000 of a certain type of car and the motor wound up having an 80% failure rate. This means that despite the car being a terrible piece of garbage, there are 200,000 people out there that can honestly say they never had theirs break.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

We love the return policy, we don't want anything but brand new, never touched.

I just looked at out of stock items on Guitar Center's website and compared to Sweetwater's site. Not a scientific study, but in my random sample, if Guitar Center was out of stock, Sweetwater had more on the way. I've also seen items return to stock on Guitar Center's site, so the suggestions of suppliers not sending stock to Guitar Center appear to be incorrect.

 

[Killing Floor]

Not an endorsement, just an observation.
Sweetwater operates as a "high service model" retailer. The "sales engineer" concept employee is actually a pretty good idea. You can like or dislike the title but here's the skinny, a sales engineer in any industry splits the difference between an applications engineer and a salesperson. It's their job to plainly speak through proper use, strength/weakness of a product or system within context of the application. They might not know the answer to every question you ask, but the immediate difference between them and a typical salesperson is that within their job title and responsibility is to find and deliver the correct answer. Where a salesperson will tell you what they need to say to close the deal, a sales engineer will arm you with better information and that may lead you to a different product altogether. So in this case is it worth paying a 2% (guess) premium to know that you will get what you need and that "need" will be fully vetted before you are asked to pay, and that will come with buyer protections and after-sale service and follow up that you wouldn't get from a big box?
To me it's an obvious "yes". While I understand the self-made necessity to shop online and that small businesses have been losing footprint for decades, I also am sage enough to recognize when it is worth a little extra gas or time or a few bucks more.
There have been quite a few threads here and elsewhere bashing big box service and shipping and sales practices. Sweetwater didn't create the problem, they found a good way to survive and thrive by fighting at the top instead of the bottom of the market.
You know (and by "know" I mean "know") that supporting local business is better for your community, and if you shop at GC, WalMart, Best Buy, etc. that is your choice but you have no ground to complain about "whatever happened to good customer service" or "I can't believe a big box dealer didn't blow my doors off with hand hold service". It's a personal choice and my personal choice is to spend where I live when I can and when I can't I'll make an informed decision to get what I need from a known reputable source. Following this pattern I have never felt "ripped off" buying music gear.

 

[dponbass]

We love the return policy, we don't want anything but brand new, never touched.

I just looked at out of stock items on Guitar Center's website and compared to Sweetwater's site. Not a scientific study, but in my random sample, if Guitar Center was out of stock, Sweetwater had more on the way. I've also seen items return to stock on Guitar Center's site, so the suggestions of suppliers not sending stock to Guitar Center appear to be incorrect.

Could be, they were able to obtain some restructuring in a "series of moves" so perhaps they are caught up with the big manufacturers. Others, like Fulltone dropped them. It will be a mixed bag, I don't suspect GC is going anywhere but like they changed their business model away from the Warwicks of the world years ago, they will likely change again to try ot be relevant.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Could be, they were able to obtain some restructuring in a "series of moves" so perhaps they are caught up with the big manufacturers. Others, like Fulltone dropped them. It will be a mixed bag, I don't suspect GC is going anywhere but like they changed their business model away from the Warwicks of the world years ago, they will likely change again to try ot be relevant.

I can't give my opinion on Fulltone due to the political nature.

 

[Bermuda Ron]

Mfgs will not ship stock to a merchant with bad credit numbers, particularly in these times when there is no surplus of goods on the shipping docks. If you need/want something from the GC Group immediately, walk into a store and MAKE AN OFFER. It is a very soft market which makes it a "haggling market". At least you will be contributing to local employment.
I personally would NOT make an online purchase with a group in this financial position unless terms are deeply discounted "as-is no returns".
Most often corporate retailers will engage specialists who conduct "GOB" (going-outta-bidness) sales where the staff is let go and slick sales types are brought in for a few week to manage the wind-up. MRP tags are marked up, and then red-lined to imply a "blow-out" price point. Don't be the poor sucker standing in that line.
I am NOT suggesting this will happen to GC Group, just passing along my experiences from a few lost years in retail mgmt.

 

[nutdog]

I’ve been using MF for more than 20 years with no issue. I almost always get 15-20% off deals, and MF offers a fantastic return policy. Add to that 8% cash back. What is there not to like?

I’m not sure if it’s been 20 years but this is my experience also. I didn’t know exactly how bad the local store was misinforming and gouging me until I discovered MF.

Used them last month to get a mixer. 15% off plus $80 off from cash back from a previous purchase. Quick ship and I’ll get money back on my next buy. 0% 48 months and it’s the cost of a burger every month.

But at least all these great financial minds are here to set us straight.

This was all old news in 2012. Romney left Bain in 2002 and Bain bought GC in 2007 and sold it in 2014, so what the heck does Romney have anything to do with GC's status in 2020? I'm not a Mitt Romney fan, but the complete irrelevance to anything going on at GC in 2020 is kinda ridiculous. Just like it was 8 years ago.

Good luck trying to spoil the narrative.

 

[LoTone]

I had one of those Markbass Blackline 250 in the past and I think that, for similar money, you would be better served with a GK MB200 or a Trace Elliott Elf. This Markbass head has a generic characterless tone. Just my 2 cents.

 

[shrigg]

So last week I ordered a new Markbass Little Mark 250 Blackline amp head through Musician's "Friend." I was really looking forward to the amp head and even dusted off a place for it (I never dust). Today, I get a plain, brown cardboard box from Guitar Center (#217, Dublin California). "What's this?" I say, as I had not ordered anything from Guitar Center (#217, Dublin California).

I opened the box to find a clearly used, unboxed, dinged up, Markbass Little Mark 250 Blackline amp head. No paperwork. No invoice. Nothing but bubblewrap and a 'scratch and dent' Markbass head covered in fingerprints from Guitar Center ......#217...... Dublin, California.

Perhaps as a counterpoint, I got lucky and spotted a Markbass JB Players School combo on the GC used site listed as a Markbass Blackline 250 head for $229.

Bought it and it showed up as pictured, the JB Players School 115 combo (which contains a rear-mounted blackline 250 head) in mint condition. This thing sounds great, weighs 35 lb. and is plenty loud for rehearsals with a loud drummer. Used it on a Jazz trio gig and it sounded great.

So GC/MF can have great deals if you hunt for em

 

[Sid Fang]

...So GC/MF can have great deals if you hunt for em

Back before e-commerce was a thing, it wasn't about finding great deals at GC, but about fighting for them. If GC had something I wanted to buy, the procedure was to find out the MSRP and offer the GC sales guy (it was *always* a guy) 66% of that, then let him feel hed gotten me to move by accepting 30% off list. Sometimes this involved shrugging and walking away - usually they'd call out after me before I got to the door. On one occasion - though I think this was at Don Wehr's in San Francisco, and not the old SF GC - I actually got about 10 yards down the street before the sales guy stuck his head out the door and yelled "Hey, wait a minute...". Buying gear used to be good training for poker and psychological warfare. Now it's merely a test of our ability to use search engines.

 

[twinfallsbass]

I've had good experiences with GC, MF, and Music123. Been shopping online for 20 years and never experienced any of these horror stories.

I used to work at a pulp mill. They had a sign up that said, "X Number of days without an Accident." Never could get past 30 days. I think TB should have a Sticky Thread on "How Many Days Since the Last MF/GC Bash Thread." I'll bet it will never make it past 30 days.

Good for him. This guy is a GC/MF sympathizer. He jumps anyone who has a bad opinion about GC or MF.

 

[DrMole]

My one anecdotal MF experience was positive. Got my Bass from them a bit over 15 months ago.
Have never been to GC but peruse their used listings frequently. Tempted but never purchased anything.

Have probably spent upwards of $20k with American Musical in past 15 years. Never any major snafus...had a backorder with a SA Spectrum pedal that seemed a bit too long for my patience but it wasn't horrible and it arrived quickly after it was in stock.

Have used their payment plan at times( to keep spouse from worrying) and have thrown $5k at one order. Always been pleased and they have recieved 95%of my online business while I go to specialty retailers for acoustic and Mandolin parts, strings and accesories.

The situation from the OP is, however unacceptable. If it is open box, scratch-and-dent or B-stock; it should be labeled and discounted as such.

I do NOT wish to see the fall of MF or GC- just wish they get their sh!t together and deliver what they promise with integrity.

 

[KJMO]

For several years the service at MF was fine, and the deals were pretty darn good with the 15-20% off and 8% for a future purchase. I honestly couldn't beat those prices elsewhere.
However, in the last year, increasingly things have been backordered, ship dates slipping, etc. and I haven't gotten a coupon in months. Seems they are pushing financing, like sweetwater does.
I don't really like sweetwater. It seems like they are spending my discount on some dude to harrass me before and after a purchase, and periodically between. The sack of candy is a turd that I dispose of.
Prostaraudio and music store live (I think the same company) will probably be my go to from here on out. Amazon is such a mess!

 

[MultiScaleMale]

My one anecdotal MF experience was positive. Got my Bass from them a bit over 15 months ago.
Have never been to GC but peruse their used listings frequently. Tempted but never purchased anything.

Have probably spent upwards of $20k with American Musical in past 15 years. Never any major snafus...had a backorder with a SA Spectrum pedal that seemed a bit too long for my patience but it wasn't horrible and it arrived quickly after it was in stock.

Have used their payment plan at times( to keep spouse from worrying) and have thrown $5k at one order. Always been pleased and they have recieved 95%of my online business while I go to specialty retailers for acoustic and Mandolin parts, strings and accesories.

The situation from the OP is, however unacceptable. If it is open box, scratch-and-dent or B-stock; it should be labeled and discounted as such.

I do NOT wish to see the fall of MF or GC- just wish they get their sh!t together and deliver what they promise with integrity.

So, my understanding is that American Musical, zzounds and samedaymusic are independent companies but they share inventory.

 

[DrMole]

So, my understanding is that American Musical, zzounds and samedaymusic are independent companies but they share inventory.

I was unaware of that. Good to know.

Thanks. Always appreciate your knowledge and perspective.
I see the original Avatar is back

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I was unaware of that. Good to know.

Thanks. Always appreciate your knowledge and perspective.
I see the original Avatar is back

Just did some spot checks of inventory on more obscure items between the three and it appear to be accurate.

 

[DrMole]

Just did some spot checks of inventory on more obscure items between the three and it appear to be accurate.

Under no circumstances do I doubt your thorough research- it is something I will keep in mind for further purchases and after you mentioned, have noticed a great deal of similarity between inventory/price between AMS and ZZsounds.