Music and Spirituality...

[UncleFluffy]

Outside of the spiritual realm, this concept is often called Flow.

There's a lot of research on how to enter and maintain a state of flow.

 

[aprod]

When I am playing it is a mindful meditation in itself.

 

[Jazz Ad]

I wouldn't say it's the same at all as flow. Flow comes through complete dedication to a task and mastery of its whereabouts.
It is a very common state for musicians.

 

[gai113]

Personal experience doesn't equal truth or reality.

Direct personal experience is the only way to know the truth; (for yourself only of course)

Everything Im talking about has to be experienced for each individual; reading about it, thinking about it; talking about it doesn't do it

Good luck


Flow is simply being in the "MOMENT" ; mindful full absorbed in what your doing

You can get into the flow washing dishes; This is the flow im speaking of; it can be done in anything in Life

 

[bander68]

Somebody snapped a photo of me at a gig once and I'm just playing. Eyes closed, a million miles away and yet right there in that moment. To me, that's what you're talking about. I live every minute of every day awaiting my next chance to be there again. I printed that photo out and put it up in my band room for my kids to see. I titled the picture "Bliss". I have lot of other titles in my mind that fit too... Home...Life...Heaven... It's where we all want to be when we play, I think. It's simply what it's all about.

 

[bassinplace]

Personal experience doesn't equal truth or reality.

Of course it does. What else is there? Personal experience are truth and reality. Or at least the closest we can get to it. Interpreting it correctly is the tricky part. Which I believe is what the op is alluding to when he refers to this "flow".

 

[Rev J]

Here's the paradox. The ego want's to be a great player. The way to be a great player is to transcend the ego. The more you want to get there the further you will move away from it. I do seriously recommend Kenny Werner's book Effortless Mastery.

The Inner Game of Music is also a great one.

To me the playing with your eyes closed thing though forces you inside your head which is great but to me is a part of the antithesis of what music is supposed to be. It is supposed to be a form of communication and connecting with others. To me to get to that transcendent state you have to connect with the audience. I'm listening to the Dead (RIP Pigpen) right now and they were fantastic at that on a good night.

I classify what I do as "Hippie Fusion" as it straddles the line between "Jam Band" and "Fusion". I love Return to Forever but I get the feeling when watching them "Improvise" they are only interacting with each other and that moment and would being playing exactly the same way in that moment where the audience wasn't there. Most of the great jam bands I've seen create almost like an electrical circuit with the audience that pushes the whole thing higher. I saw the String Cheese Incident at the Greek Theater in Berkeley I had only drank 2 beers all day and was high on the energy I got from the music. That was all I needed.

C/S,
Rev J

 

[bassinplace]

Here's the paradox. The ego want's to be a great player. The way to be a great player is to transcend the ego. The more you want to get there the further you will move away from it. I do seriously recommend Kenny Werner's book Effortless Mastery.

The Inner Game of Music is also a great one.

To me the playing with your eyes closed thing though forces you inside your head which is great but to me is a part of the antithesis of what music is supposed to be. It is supposed to be a form of communication and connecting with others. To me to get to that transcendent state you have to connect with the audience. I'm listening to the Dead (RIP Pigpen) right now and they were fantastic at that on a good night.

I classify what I do as "Hippie Fusion" as it straddles the line between "Jam Band" and "Fusion". I love Return to Forever but I get the feeling when watching them "Improvise" they are only interacting with each other and that moment and would being playing exactly the same way in that moment where the audience wasn't there. Most of the great jam bands I've seen create almost like an electrical circuit with the audience that pushes the whole thing higher. I saw the String Cheese Incident at the Greek Theater in Berkeley I had only drank 2 beers all day and was high on the energy I got from the music. That was all I needed.

C/S,
Rev J

Yep. It gets me everytime.

 

[totallyfrozen]

Lol im not talking about religion my friend...

Spirituality and Religion are 2 complete different things...

But in the context of of this forum they are not really considered 2 different things. Many religious people are spiritual and many spiritual people are religious. Also, many religious people are not spiritual and many spiritual people are not religious.

You seek to "enlighten" us to your "spiritual" (i.e. religious belief) views; therefore, this is a religious discussion.

Just to show you that I'm not criticizing or opposed to your thread, I'd like to share this link that I found extremely helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un3p614XExc

 

[gai113]

But in the context of of this forum they are not really considered 2 different things. Many religious people are spiritual and many spiritual people are religious. Also, many religious people are not spiritual and many spiritual people are not religious.

You seek to "enlighten" us to your "spiritual" (i.e. religious belief) views; therefore, this is a religious discussion.

Just to show you that I'm not criticizing or opposed to your thread, I'd like to share this link that I found extremely helpful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un3p614XExc

First spiritual and religious belief are TOTALLY different;

Also

THis is a discussion mainly about human consciousness as it relates to music creativity and freedom and im talking about merely my experiences..


I don't even understand your post; Forget about religion and spirituality and think of MUSIC man;

Im talking about music


Yes Someone earlier talked about it but Kenny Werner Effortless mastery!

That is exactly the place im talking about he describes

I highly reccomend Effortless Mastery as well; i totally forgot how useful that book is!

He is touching on some awesome things in his book ;

 

[FretlessMainly]

You correctly indicate that not all spirituality is connected to religion:

...and many spiritual people are not religious.

and then you try to claim that all spirituality is connected to religion to make your point:

...your "spiritual" (i.e. religious belief) views; therefore, this is a religious discussion.

 

[ACalbass]

First spiritual and religious belief are TOTALLY different;

Also

THis is a discussion mainly about human consciousness as it relates to music creativity and freedom and im talking about merely my experiences..


I don't even understand your post; Forget about religion and spirituality and think of MUSIC man;

Im talking about music


Yes Someone earlier talked about it but Kenny Werner Effortless mastery!

That is exactly the place im talking about he describes

I highly reccomend Effortless Mastery as well; i totally forgot how useful that book is!

He is touching on some awesome things in his book ;

let's talk about music then.

You can be as much spiritual as you can be,still suck at music.Or make the most awful music.
The idea of being a better musician is not coming from the spiritual,of course if the idea is to be a better musician,which is what I grab from the topic.
or is about our spiritual being?
If you start arguing is not about progressing in music,then you are not talking about music,but merely a personal way of life,that translate into your music life.


You can be aware of your spirituality way before you are a musician,or way later,point is you can say the same thing about WORDS than for music,related to the inspirational and creative process.
Or paint,or actually ANY and ALL arts.

So,restricting the topic to music,please tell me :

A collective consciousness accessible for everyone,but then not everyone is able to play an instrument,or play it well,how does it help?
Is this collective consciousness ONLY for music?
If is not,then we are not really talking about music but other orders in life as well,is that correct?

You are not here to prove a point,still see you have problems with those that do not "understand it" the way you do.
Isn't simply because is the other way around : you trying to prove a point?

You said "is an idea and concept",but you live by it,correct?
So,it is not an idea for you anymore,correct?

Is not a concept anymore when you clearly state " this is where ideas/thoughts/creativity comes from" ,and I can tell you how many people disagree with that.
Let's just say is what YOU believe,or want to believe.
Then is not about music anymore,correct?

How can we approach a discussion if you only want to talk to those that can "understand what you are talking about"?
All those that have the same belief will agree with you,while others will be pushed away from the thread.

Let's talk about music and spirituality.
We have to start by understanding the mechanism that pushed man to start making some noise,sing,dance since the very first attempts in the cave era : its purpose,the outcome,the reward.

or maybe you do not understand what I am trying to say?

All I can understand is that eastern religions explain the "consciousness" the way you understand it,and many musicians are into that by choice,by belief.
I am not judging,I just have many questions that need to be answered way before we start talking about music and spirituality.
What you think spirituality is looks to me is based on believes (eastern religion mainly,while the argument could be is not religion,its still a belief),so is hard to get into the music aspect without fully understand and agree in what spirituality is exactly.

 

[ACalbass]

Direct personal experience is the only way to know the truth; (for yourself only of course)

Everything Im talking about has to be experienced for each individual; reading about it, thinking about it; talking about it doesn't do it

Good luck


Flow is simply being in the "MOMENT" ; mindful full absorbed in what your doing

You can get into the flow washing dishes; This is the flow im speaking of; it can be done in anything in Life

And i have problems understanding the topic,when I read your statements.
""Direct personal experience is the only way to know the truth; (for yourself only of course) ""
So,are you talking about a personal relationship ,like with Jesus?
I mean,is what Christians believe in,are you a Christian?
isn't that what all eastern religions believe in? :"be one with it" (Christianity is also middle eastern religion,I must say)

I also see you cannot understand absolutism,which states that truth MUST be only one,or there is no truth at all.
Is that something you are willing to ponder?

In reality,both options (absolutism and relativism) claim the same thing :we know what the truth is,which is the way you are answering all questions.

I must say is not true,you are trying to come through using the logic of your beliefs,not the truth.
The discussion is not much about music,I am afraid.
Not even with the ones that agree with you,is about the way you understand spiritualism.
Is all ok in my book,is just not really about music,since there is no way for you to explain the creative process since you can't understand it fully.
But probably you live like you know it,is that correct?

 

[FretlessMainly]

I'll offer a simple explanation although I cannot speak for cire:

Spirituality is the concept of pursuing the understanding of and evaluting one's existence within all that is or may be perceived to be. It can be done through the R word or through other non-doctrinal/dogmatic methods. It doesn't have to have a connection to music, but in this context, cire seems to be tapping into how he can use music to find who he is and vice versa (perhaps the vice versa is more important).

I trust I did not break any rules here, but I realize that we are skirting on the edge a bit. Apologies if I have.

 

[CapnSev]

Link Removed

 

[ACalbass]

I'll offer a simple explanation although I cannot speak for cire:

Spirituality is the concept of pursuing the understanding of and evaluting one's existence within all that is or may be perceived to be. It can be done through the R word or through other non-doctrinal/dogmatic methods. It doesn't have to have a connection to music, but in this context, cire seems to be tapping into how he can use music to find who he is and vice versa (perhaps the vice versa is more important).

I trust I did not break any rules here, but I realize that we are skirting on the edge a bit. Apologies if I have.

I am trying to say also that I do not want to break any rules,nor i want to refute the concepts.
But spirituality the way I understand it,is not much about music,but a belief for your entire way of life.
It will govern everything,including music,and won't mean you will be a better musician,play better,have more ideas,simply because you live this way.
You may feel better about yourself,your music,the world,might help you with your problems,it won't inject any extra talent,give musical breakthroughs.
So,in what sense spirituality and music are related?

 

[FretlessMainly]

But spirituality the way I understand it,is not much about music,but a belief for your entire way of life.

Fair enough. I don't think we need to define spirituality entirely in the context of music. But if you are a musician, does not your approach to life get expressed in your music? One would hope so.

It will govern everything,including music,and won't mean you will be a better musician,play better,have more ideas,simply because you live this way.

Well, of course not. I don't believe that anyone here is claiming this.

You may feel better about yourself,your music,the world,might help you with your problems,it won't inject any extra talent,give musical breakthroughs.

Again, of course not. The point is, if you examine yourself, you might come up with something original to say on your instrument. Noone is claiming that being a thinker will necessarily make you a better musician, so stop asking about that!

So,in what sense spirituality and music are related?

In all and none.

 

[fdeck]

My body is a bag of chemicals that makes music.

 

[leftiebass]

If you have a practice, meditation, prayer, mindfulness try to do your practice and then pick up your instrument and play. Is it different than when you just walk in off the street and play?

 

[ACalbass]

In all and none.

I wasn't really asking,is just a way to follow a train of thoughts and see where it ends up.

Anyway,how to talk about something you cannot put in words?

You might not believe it,but I have read many books and have beliefs.
The main problem I found over the years is people that say they found something have nothing more than a notion of what it is,very unclear and are generally in a state of bliss that make moot the point of discussing it.
You are happy,is all that matters.