Music Performance Major for Professional Working Musicians... Does it really matter??

[MostlyBass]

You really need to evaluate, objectively, your current level and circumstances, where you want to be, and the best route to get there.

If you only want to play, you can do that with any degree or no degree. Regardless, you should already be taking lessons from a top-notch player.

Being able to play both electric and upright, and play them well will exponentially increase your marketing.

I have two degrees - a bachelors in music Ed and a masters in double bass performance. My main gig is teaching and I love it. That said, all my paying gigs come from classical playing.

 

[So Low Bass]

Considering the school route as opposed to the lottery-winning pop/rock star route:

This is actually the best idea. If you cannot get into a school on a scholarship or partial scholarship (based on an audition), you obviously cannot compete with the level of talent at said school. This is not "harsh", it's reality.

Great point BUT, some incorporated educators will offer a fat first year bone and then drop you the second year, leaving you with worthless "credits" towards a worthless "degree" if you drop THEM.

In this particular case, UW Madison is a great option.

 

[scotch]

It would be helpful if the op detailed whether they had any more focused goals (such as : "I want to have a career as an electric jazz soloist." or "I want to be a flexible hired-gun in a city with lots of popular style work.", etc.).

There are so many paths to start down. If there is a specific style the op wants to focus on, that could narrow school options down. On the other hand, if the goal is to be the most legit blues bassist in town, school may not be the the most direct route.

Still, given the op's age (17, right?), I think some school would be smart. And not necessarily music school! In todays work atmosphere, I can't stress how important having multiple revenue streams is & even exploring multiple unrelated careers. Very few folks in the 21st century are doing the same thing & only ONE thing anymore!

 

[Jazzkuma]

No it doesn't. I am a performance and film scoring major at berklee and a performance degree isn't going to take you anywhere farther than you would without it. But at the same time it won't hurt you.
The only reason I am also a performance major is because it gives me an extra slot for private lessons and more time to practice. The problem starts when you take film scoring/music production then you barely have any time to practice, jam or gig on your instrument because you have so many projects to do.

If you are responsible enough and have the motivation to practice on your own time (and maybe hire a private instructor on the side) then you don't need the performance major. If you plan to major in something else make sure you will have the time to work on you instrument too. There are many new things you can learn from other music related majors which you can apply to your own playing. Music production, recording, film scoring, composition, history...etc are all great music related majors which you can take while also practicing bass.

 

[the aXeman]

It would be helpful if the op detailed whether they had any more focused goals (such as : "I want to have a career as an electric jazz soloist." or "I want to be a flexible hired-gun in a city with lots of popular style work.", etc.).

There are so many paths to start down. If there is a specific style the op wants to focus on, that could narrow school options down. On the other hand, if the goal is to be the most legit blues bassist in town, school may not be the the most direct route.

Still, given the op's age (17, right?), I think some school would be smart. And not necessarily music school! In todays work atmosphere, I can't stress how important having multiple revenue streams is & even exploring multiple unrelated careers. Very few folks in the 21st century are doing the same thing & only ONE thing anymore!

As far as what I'd like to play, I'd like to be a hired gun that plays what he's asked... I'm definitely NOT an Upright player (see one of my earlier posts...), Electric guy all the way. Stylistically speaking, I'll play whatever I'm asked to; (Thrash Metal, Hard Rock, Smooth Jazz, Folk, Country, etc...) Ideally, I'd just be a hired gun who does anything from tours with 80's Hair bands with 1 or 2 original members with me being some guy that's just another body onstage playing the songs behind whomever the people came to see... to playing with Musicals in the pit...

As far as multiple streams of income, I get what everybody's saying there.... Most people I know do more than just ONE thing to make ends meet now (state of the times...), I want Music to be the FOCUS of what I do, I know several guys who are Pro's as well and even THEY have to tap their other skills to put bread on the table too... I know it'll probably be the same for me... However, I still want to center my income around Music as much as I can....

 

[scotch]

As far as what I'd like to play, I'd like to be a hired gun that plays what he's asked... I'm definitely NOT an Upright player (see one of my earlier posts...), Electric guy all the way. Stylistically speaking, I'll play whatever I'm asked to; (Thrash Metal, Hard Rock, Smooth Jazz, Folk, Country, etc...) Ideally, I'd just be a hired gun who does anything from tours with 80's Hair bands with 1 or 2 original members with me being some guy that's just another body onstage playing the songs behind whomever the people came to see... to playing with Musicals in the pit...

As far as multiple streams of income, I get what everybody's saying there.... Most people I know do more than just ONE thing to make ends meet now (state of the times...), I want Music to be the FOCUS of what I do, I know several guys who are Pro's as well and even THEY have to tap their other skills to put bread on the table too... I know it'll probably be the same for me... However, I still want to center my income around Music as much as I can....

Alright. Well, this isn't too far from what I've been doing all these years.

It sounds from your op, that you're already on-track as far as playing music with others. That's good! There is no better education than playing with others- particularly playing with other musicians that are BETTER than you! The hired-gun thing requires experience playing different styles & feels and being able to gel with players coming from different perspectives. That means being able to hang with solid drummers, crappy drummers, esoteric soloists, deaf guitarists, etc, etc....

People skills are so important. Be sure that you're the kind of person that people really want to be around. Being nice & having a sense of humor are absolutely necessary. I've developed a mantra: The first 2 gigs are 80% playing skills and 20% people skills - every gig after that is 20% playing skills and 80% people skills! No joke.

Location, location, location! If you want work with established acts, you need to go where they are! (until you hit a certain level anyways) That might mean NY, L.A., Nashville, Atlanta, New Orleans, etc... Depends on your focus & where the hot scenes are when you're ready.

Music school might be a good idea for you, but honestly from what I've seen, the more reputable schools are a smarter bet. Again, the contacts and networking are key! You'll learn more about playing from private instruction & playing with others than you will from classes.

Don't paint yourself into a corner. Develop another marketable skill/ career path!

That's all the advice I can think of. Stay healthy & remember that at the end of the day, for-hire musicians are no different than any other service provider (like a plumber, electrician, whatever): your job is to make other people happy. That isn't easy & it's definitle NOT all about the music!

 

[scotch]

You should post over in the Justin Meldal Johnson forum. He's a first-call sideman with an amazing resume (makes me look like a chump!), has been to music school (I believe) & is probably the best guy to ask about this stuff!

Free advice from real pros online. Wish I had talkbass 20 years ago!

 

[the aXeman]

Alright. Well, this isn't too far from what I've been doing all these years.

It sounds from your op, that you're already on-track as far as playing music with others. That's good! There is no better education than playing with others- particularly playing with other musicians that are BETTER than you! The hired-gun thing requires experience playing different styles & feels and being able to gel with players coming from different perspectives. That means being able to hang with solid drummers, crappy drummers, esoteric soloists, deaf guitarists, etc, etc....

People skills are so important. Be sure that you're the kind of person that people really want to be around. Being nice & having a sense of humor are absolutely necessary. I've developed a mantra: The first 2 gigs are 80% playing skills and 20% people skills - every gig after that is 20% playing skills and 80% people skills! No joke.

Location, location, location! If you want work with established acts, you need to go where they are! (until you hit a certain level anyways) That might mean NY, L.A., Nashville, Atlanta, New Orleans, etc... Depends on your focus & where the hot scenes are when you're ready.

Music school might be a good idea for you, but honestly from what I've seen, the more reputable schools are a smarter bet. Again, the contacts and networking are key! You'll learn more about playing from private instruction & playing with others than you will from classes.

Don't paint yourself into a corner. Develop another marketable skill/ career path!

That's all the advice I can think of. Stay healthy & remember that at the end of the day, for-hire musicians are no different than any other service provider (like a plumber, electrician, whatever): your job is to make other people happy. That isn't easy & it's definitle NOT all about the music!


You should post over in the Justin Meldal Johnson forum. He's a first-call sideman with an amazing resume (makes me look like a chump!), has been to music school (I believe) & is probably the best guy to ask about this stuff!

Free advice from real pros online. Wish I had talkbass 20 years ago!

Thanks Scotch!! That's been my approach for the last few years, I just did an Acoustic Country Rock gig this afternoon for this Arts Festival and it was a blast!! TOTALLY last second, I learned half the songs last night!! Yikes!! I've got a big gig coming up with them this coming Saturday...


I like the point you brought up about the people skills thing, that's one thing I've been working on.... I'm usually a really shy person and pretty to myself.... So I've really been working on being more outgoing at gigs and such lately...

As far as what's up for me at the moment and for the next year or 2, finishing High School is first and foremost... One thing I didn't mention earlier on (oops...) was a band I'm teaming up with coming up... They were a cover band for 10 years in the Fox Valley area and garnered a pretty respectable following. They recently split in the spring and the Guitarist and Singer are doing an Original project next. Their target zone that they want to hit is the Festival circuit, (Summerfest, The Rave, Rock USA, Rockfest, etc...) they're hooking up with Booking Agents, Managers etc... Basically, they wanna come out, do a 50 minute opening slot for a National act and be done for the night.... They're writing songs for a full-length album we're going to be recording this Fall, they're sifting through people they know in Milwaukee, Madison and Chicago to mix/master it to make it sound as professional as possible. They're gonna push to have it played on all the local Rock stations throughout Wisconsin... So, through that I plan on using that as something to put on my resume, especially at my age that's a pretty good accolade to come out of the blocks with... Networking is something I'll be doing 24/7 through this whole timeframe.... Beyond that, trying to pick a target zone for me to get after and make contacts down there, move there, hit the scene, possibly Schooling..... Yada yada yada...

 

[Stick_Player]

From another post:

For any of you contemplating enrolling in a "For Profit College" - Musicians' Institute, Full Sail, L.A. music Academy, McNally-Smith, etc.

You might want to read the "[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]" in the latest Rolling Stone Magazine.

Input: The Great College Rip-Off in the search box. If you have an account read it. If not, get the magazine. Otherwise, throw your money away.

 

[MostlyBass]

Great point BUT, some incorporated educators will offer a fat first year bone and then drop you the second year, leaving you with worthless "credits" towards a worthless "degree" if you drop THEM.

In this particular case, UW Madison is a great option.

Good point. You need to inquire about the conditions and renewing options of any scholarship.

I had a full scholarship for my masters for both years but I made sure that it was going to be renewed the second year or that the renewing conditions were reasonable. You definitely have to ask about this.

 

[So Low Bass]

Stick... I'll have to read that article, but you brought up a great point on another such post that I never thought of: Will a legit grad school accept your bachelors "degree" or not.

OP: I'm still wondering:

1. Do you take private lessons?
2. Are you a member of your school (or even church) music program?
3. Will you take the SATs?

and adding:

4. What's wrong with UW Madison? Thousands of graduates get great jobs in PR, Journalism, Education, Engineering, etc etc each year. Hundreds also go onto legit grad schools. Finally, many play music on the side for fun and perhaps a little extra tax free cash.

Get back to me when you have the time.

 

[DWBass]

Hmmm.....speaking for ME, there's no way I would go $120k in the hole for a music degree with no guarantees of landing something that would allow me to pay that back!

Having a degree helps if you want to work in the music educational system but still, where is one to make the kind of salary to be able to repay a school loan like that!

I taught myself to read (there are plenty of books and videos). IMHO, being a well rehearsed, solid and versatile musician with a great attitude will afford you opportunities that has no bearing on a degree. I would go so far to say that the % of 'educated' musicians is pretty low and most are doing pretty well for themselves. Just depends on where you want to go as a musician. Unless you are a rock star or a very high paid sideman/studio rat like a Nathan East or Will Lee, the likelihood of making a whole lot of money is slim!

 

[So Low Bass]

You really need to evaluate, objectively, your current level and circumstances, where you want to be, and the best route to get there.

If you only want to play, you can do that with any degree or no degree. Regardless, you should already be taking lessons from a top-notch player.

Being able to play both electric and upright, and play them well will exponentially increase your marketing.

I have two degrees - a bachelors in music Ed and a masters in double bass performance. My main gig is teaching and I love it. That said, all my paying gigs come from classical playing.

Every wanna-be-pro kid should read your resume posted online.

This isn’t oboetalk.com or even violintalk.com. Any high school student who doesn’t want to at least familiarize him/herself with all aspect of the bass world should consider not majoring in music, and certainly keep way from for-profits. Here’s a guy with a steady paycheck, benefits, vacation, and retirement possibilities. It looks to me like he plays as much as he wants, and BECAUSE HE’S A BASS PLAYER, he plays Mozart and Metal, Bach and Beatles. I’m sure that, from time to time, he has to play gigs and tunes that he can’t stand. He might be in the Union (do you have a clue what this is) and he probably had student loans, but because he attended legit, LEGIT, LEGIT schools, was/is able to pay them off.

I never met him, but I bet that he was taking private lessons, including piano, in (at least) high school, and was a member of his high school music programs. If you’re high school wanna-be pro student NOT doing this, stay in your bedroom, watch your music videos, and dream on. The alarm will go off soon enough (and you’ll have to eventually pay your own cable bill). Or, go to college for a career and play for fun.

There are 7 year old kids from foreign countries taking lessons at Juilliard.

 

[MostlyBass]

Every wanna-be-pro kid should read your resume posted online.

This isn’t oboetalk.com or even violintalk.com. Any high school student who doesn’t want to at least familiarize him/herself with all aspect of the bass world should consider not majoring in music, and certainly keep way from for-profits. Here’s a guy with a steady paycheck, benefits, vacation, and retirement possibilities. It looks to me like he plays as much as he wants, and BECAUSE HE’S A BASS PLAYER, he plays Mozart and Metal, Bach and Beatles. I’m sure that, from time to time, he has to play gigs and tunes that he can’t stand. He might be in the Union (do you have a clue what this is) and he probably had student loans, but because he attended legit, LEGIT, LEGIT schools, was/is able to pay them off.

I never met him, but I bet that he was taking private lessons, including piano, in (at least) high school, and was a member of his high school music programs. If you’re high school wanna-be pro student NOT doing this, stay in your bedroom, watch your music videos, and dream on. The alarm will go off soon enough (and you’ll have to eventually pay your own cable bill). Or, go to college for a career and play for fun.

There are 7 year old kids from foreign countries taking lessons at Juilliard.

Wow! Thanks!!! I was a member of band (clarinet) and orchestra (bass) in high school and took music theory in high school. I did take private piano and voice lessons to prepare for music school. And you're good - I do play lots of styles and enjoy that part of being a bassist.

You make excellent points- especially about children taking lessons. Any aspiring musician needs a solid plan mixed with a healthy dose of realism an objectivity.

If you're not a music reader by now you have to do some serious evaluating.

 

[So Low Bass]

I have a funny Potsdam story:

I applied for SUNY Fredonia winter of 1970. I had a church job and a working band in the Buffalo area so Fredonia is the only college I applied to. I auditioned at the school (The Elephant, what else?) and was accepted on the spot. Even though Fredonia was the ONLY undergrad school I applied for, I received a formal letter of rejection from Potsdam!

To this day I have ambivalent feelings for the place!

 

[Stick_Player]

There are 7 year old kids from foreign countries taking lessons at Juilliard.

They start 'em at 4 or 5 now.

My kid started at 5 at Colburn, even though he's not from a foreign country.

 

[So Low Bass]

That's great! No matter what he does down the road, he'll take his music with him.

 

[oniman7]

I've always thought that you could take the money for an expensive college (like Full Sail, which I had looked at) and put it in a long term CD or such.

 

[MostlyBass]

I have a funny Potsdam story:

I applied for SUNY Fredonia winter of 1970. I had a church job and a working band in the Buffalo area so Fredonia is the only college I applied to. I auditioned at the school (The Elephant, what else?) and was accepted on the spot. Even though Fredonia was the ONLY undergrad school I applied for, I received a formal letter of rejection from Potsdam!

To this day I have ambivalent feelings for the place!

I was at Potsdam from 92-96 and LOVED IT!! I too was accepted at Fredonia but didn't like the vibe there...

 

[So Low Bass]

...I too was accepted at Fredonia but didn't like the vibe there...

Ya, but the marimba was OK.