Music School ?

[dbsfgyd1]

During the last AF band draw down, good people were actually forced out. This had not happened in previous draw dawns. We saved a drummer by cross training him to a keyboard vacancy. If he had not been skilled on keys, he would have been forced out before reaching retirement. He was a hard worker and an exceptional team player, with little potential to promote to a higher grade where the focus is more on leadership traits. He has since retired.

The philosophy and policy in the Air Force has also shifted towards retaining only the best. Keep in mind best is subjective. They used to give a small amount of cumulative promotion points for Time in Service and Time in Grade (this places a small nominal value on seniority and experience). I believe both of these are gone. Also they have given more power to leaders to influence who gets promoted, meaning your performance and accomplishments carry less weight and office politics carry more. In conjunction with these changes, performance reports have become much less detailed.

On the face, many of these changes seem sensible. But I think they are likely to have a negative impact on the culture over time. In my experience, having only the "best" doesn't always work as effectively as you might think, especially if it degrades esprit de corps and team work.

Oh, I’m not saying this sort of thing doesn’t happen. What I’m saying is that sort of thing is not exclusive to the military.

 

[Wasnex]

What I’m saying is that sort of thing is not exclusive to the military.

All too common in the civilian sector.

It's unusual for the military...or at least it was.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

All too common in the civilian sector.

It's unusual for the military...or at least it was.

That is for sure! Good chat friend.

 

[Jazzdogg]

At his age, at this point in his "career" he doesn't know what he needs to know. I don't use everything I learned in music school, but I have used a lot of it. If I had only learned what I wanted to learn back then, I would have missed out on a lot. Most people have a complete misconception about the value of a college education. You get so many benefits from being exposed to a lot of things you would never have sought out on your own, you develop discipline, you make relationships, and many other great things you miss if you skip school.

There is no reason that he can't go to college and pursue his career as a full time musician at the same time. I played in bands the entire time I was in college. I got a lot of gigs from people I was in school with through referrals.

...and no matter how good one is musically or academically, to be a pro musician who can earn a living consistently, they've got to have great people skills. A schmuck may be hired, but they're unlikely to be rehired: it's all about relationship building and "the hang" because, first and foremost, music is collaborative.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Nobody's mentioned yet the elephant in the room: cost.

If this student is taking on debt for music school, and hopes to be a full time professional musician, that's a very bad idea. If the schooling is free or nearly so, or being paid for by his parents AND WITHOUT RISK TO THE PARENTS' FINANCIAL STATUS, then the decision can be made purely on the subject matter and its relevance to his anticipated future career path.

Full time professional musicians who make all their living from music-related activities (as opposed to music teachers in a public school) tend to have very low earnings and highly variable earnings. Get out of school at 22, debt free, and want to be a music pro? Fine. Live off ramen noodles and peanut butter sandwiches, get six roomies, tour in a broken down van with five other guys, whatever. You're young and springy, you can live pretty much on air, don't sweat it, if it doesn't work out (and it almost always won't), you can go back to school, get a degree in something where you can earn a living, and you can dine out on your stories of "when I was a full time pro" the rest of your life.

Now consider the same situation, except when you launch at 22 you've got $100,000 (or even more!) debt hanging on you for the rest of your life. You're hosed. That millstone is going to drag you down.

At the college from which I retired, there were far fewer jobs than applicants: musicians who wanted a steady teaching gig with benefits and retirement, which allowed them networking opportunities and the ability to gig, had to have a PhD just to be considered.

 

[turf3]

At the college from which I retired, there were far fewer jobs than applicants: musicians who wanted a steady teaching gig with benefits and retirement, which allowed them networking opportunities and the ability to gig, had to have a PhD just to be considered.

I'm not sure how this relates to my comment you quoted.

 

[fdeck]

At the college from which I retired, there were far fewer jobs than applicants: musicians who wanted a steady teaching gig with benefits and retirement, which allowed them networking opportunities and the ability to gig, had to have a PhD just to be considered.

Same in my field, physics.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I was prejudiced against academics in music in college by the director who kicked me out of the ensemble when my club gig caused a conflict with the college band schedule. His disdain for "commercial" music and musicians sparked a spirited discussion between us ending in my dismissal. I have since had many positive interactions with musical academia and even done some adjunct teaching in that area but have never been interested in more formal involvement. I felt somewhat bad at the time but realized in hindsight that he had done me a tremendous favor by focusing my efforts in what for me turned out to be the right direction. In addition to putting me on my proper personal course as a professional, it has helped me since I became a studio teacher myself to realize the effect I can have on students beyond the actual teaching of music.

 

[Elk]

I dropped out of a very prestigious music school and have since been on the faculty of two others, so I can offer a unique (hopefully balanced) perspective.

The single biggest advantage of music school is that you are playing with others all the time. Playing with other musicians (better ones) will make you a better musician. And it does come with other benefits like networking etc. When I dropped out it was because I had opportunities come my way I felt like I couldn't pass up on. In hindsight, an extra year playing as many genres in as many ensembles as possible would have been about perfect. Music school makes this extremely convenient. That's one perspective.

The other perspective is a lot more brutal. Learning qua learning is up to the student. There are frankly terrible instructors at prestigious music schools all over the world who have been put in that role because they are world class players -- but this does not make them good teachers. Moreover, even a great teacher cannot look over a students shoulder the other 167 hours/ week. Accordingly, there are thousands of students who come out of music school every year $100,000+ in debt who frankly suck and have no other skills. That is just a dire position to be in. Seriously.

This leads me to my final point -- there is some truth to the idea that the best students tend to get plucked out of music school before graduating. This works in favour of the argument for and the argument against going. On the one hand, you're putting yourself in an environment where, if you're seriously turning heads, you are going to get tapped on the shoulder. On the other hand, if someone is that good there's no reason to believe they would not make it otherwise.

TL;DR: he should join as many ensembles as possible, play in bands outside of college, and practice his ass off. If he is that good, people will notice and he will probably be given the opportunity where he can play for money instead of going further and further in debt. If he isn't that good -- and he needs to be honest with himself -- he needs to think critically if spiralling into more and more debt is worth it. There is absolutely no shame in going to a normal college and getting a "useful" degree while playing music on the side. This is exactly what Tim Lefebvre did, and now he's one of the most in demand cats in the country. Why? Because he is that good.

 

[BarfanyShart]

I have mixed feelings about my experience earning degrees in music performance. But ultimately I come out on the side of not discouraging anyone from getting a formal education in music. It's such a different thing from non-formal study that you really don't know how somebody is going to take to it, or what they are going to get out of it, until they put a year or two into it. That said, a lot of great musicians I have met dropped out of music school after a year or two - but I feel like that's just an informed decision at that point.

 

[Bruce Calin]

To bring the thread up to date: The student I mentioned at the beginning has his jury(final performance exam) for our lessons together tomorrow. My understanding is that he has his parents' okay to leave college and pursue a music career. He will be playing a short classical piece as evidence he has been working on music reading(his main problem area) and a piece he has written and transcribed. As far as I know, he will then be on his way. I've tried to give him what info and guidance I can, and I appreciate all the comments here. I hope he will keep in contact with me so that I can know how things go.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

To bring the thread up to date: The student I mentioned at the beginning has his jury(final performance exam) for our lessons together tomorrow. My understanding is that he has his parents' okay to leave college and pursue a music career. He will be playing a short classical piece as evidence he has been working on music reading(his main problem area) and a piece he has written and transcribed. As far as I know, he will then be on his way. I've tried to give him what info and guidance I can, and I appreciate all the comments here. I hope he will keep in contact with me so that I can know how things go.

Hey Bruce I've been following out of interest. How did your student do at the jury?

 

[Bruce Calin]

Thanks for your interest,PTL. He played pretty well, not perfect on the Bach but quite good. His self-composed piece impressed the faculty and showed what his potential as a musician is. I talked to him afterward and he has definitely decided to leave school and take his chances. I don't think his other instructors know that yet so I'm keeping it to myself for now. I had two other students playing who also did quite well based on expectations. They're planning on being back next semester. I don't know how healthy it is but I find myself getting more and more attached to these kids as well as some of my other students. I'm almost like a grandparent, giving advice and trying to answer questions that are sometimes very personal on both sides. They want honest answers that nobody else will give them. Have any of you more experienced teachers, especially with students of this age, had similar experiences?

 

[peterfrey2000]

I want to say there is a Cory Wong video where they discussed this and I believe the consensus was to go to music school for one year.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Thanks for your interest,PTL. He played pretty well, not perfect on the Bach but quite good. His self-composed piece impressed the faculty and showed what his potential as a musician is. I talked to him afterward and he has definitely decided to leave school and take his chances. I don't think his other instructors know that yet so I'm keeping it to myself for now. I had two other students playing who also did quite well based on expectations. They're planning on being back next semester. I don't know how healthy it is but I find myself getting more and more attached to these kids as well as some of my other students. I'm almost like a grandparent, giving advice and trying to answer questions that are sometimes very personal on both sides. They want honest answers that nobody else will give them. Have any of you more experienced teachers, especially with students of this age, had similar experiences?

Thanks, I'm glad to hear he did well enough. I hope he's successful. And I think what you're describing is mentorship. I'm not a music teacher, but that's a valuable and appropriate role, if the student needs it and clearly wants it from you. Curious to hear what others say.