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Double Bass Music VS Ego

#86
I think you're both right. As a purveyor, the player brings his individual taste to bear on the whole. It's what makes each person unique. Now you're also assuming the player has enough of a command over his/her instrument so that they're not just playing licks. At the same time, the player has to act as a listener in order to respond to what the other players in the group are doing.
 
#87
Paul Warburton said:
I've always wanted to post a thread on this, but it's taken me some years to gather the balls to do so.
Obviously, the heading of " Music VS Ego " brings to mind some individuals on any instrument that use their visual and musical abilities to try to ' weave a musical spectical ' to thrill one and all, especially that inner ego of thier own that seems to need to be fed.
To be as clear as I can, I'll give out an example of how this subject has affected me and my work as a professional jazz bassist.
I've mentioned, in passing, in the forum , my concerns regarding this. A few years back, when in any musical setting I would at times, need to show the power I held over this ungodly huge and unweildly instrument. Especially when other bassists would show up, I would let the fireworks begin and shove the music out the door. I would abandon my musical taste and put on a show.....double-stopping, venturing into the thumb positions, way beyond my abilities and, of course, FLAYLING with my thumb, multi-stopping at the end of a tune.
One day, after hanging with some of my heroes, Bill Evans, Jim Hall, Red Mitchell etc., It dawned on me!! We got some MUSIC here!
When I rehearsed with Jim Hall, through my drunken stupor, I thought: Who the hell does this guy thinks he is, with his little, old antique Gibson amp??? Where the hell is his god damn chops? What were all these spaces between his musical statements, almost like a breath? What were all these gorgeous voicings coimg from his left hand? I FINALLY got it.

Does any of this stuff sound familiar? Does any of this open your eyes? Do you have any experiences regarding any of this? Most importantly, are some of your musical heros guilty of this? This stuff is prevelant in ALL musical genre. Try to listen to the MUSIC..........
PW
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Thank you for posting this. I am Guilty of having a big Ego and spoiling the music, at times.:(
 
#88
This is a very interesting thread.

IMHO, the ego in music can be a bit of a fine line. On one hand, you want to be able to surrender yourself to the collective conscious of the group you're playing with and the music you're playing - listening and responding to what's going on around you. On the other hand, if you don't have just a tiny bit of ego involved, you might feel that you're not even worthy of sharing the bandstand with an individual or group of musicians. If you're having those kinds of thoughts, it's pretty much guaranteed that you won't be "in the moment" and the music can suffer as a result.

I've had the good fortune to play with players who've played with the likes of Ron Carter, Eddie Gomez and John Pattitucci. Given that, it's not likely that anything I play is going to impress them. Even so, I'm the one who was called to do the gig, so I have to be at least confident enough of my abilities to believe that I can hang with them and try to create beautiful music.

I have no control over how others view my performance - whether someone thinks I played the greatest **** ever, or that I was involved in an egotistical wankfest. All I can do is to try to be true to the music and to myself. As someone said earlier, you can only sound like what you sound like.

Jim
 
#89
I've bee reading this thread with great interest. It is a great topic. I think Ed Foozball has nailed it a couple of times already. Others have made real interesting observations as well. :hyper::hyper:

Since Webster's II New revised Dictionary provides three definitions of ego. The third definition is: self love or egotism. Egotism is defined as; The tendency to refer to oneself excessively or boastfully, 2. self importance 3. conceit. :p

Confidence, on the other hand, is referred to as; 1. reliance or trust. 3. a feeling of self assurance.:cool:

It is one thing to play with confidence and quite another to play in an egotistical manner. The best players I've met and played with all play with tons of self assured confidence. Very few play in a boastful or self important manner. Those that play as if no one else exists on the stand or usually not very good regardless of how many notes they can throw around at 300 BPM.

If you have chops, great use them, but use them in the service of the music. How many of us have played with players who had great chops but don't listen? For me, this kind of experience is akin to a few hours in a dentist's chair... not fun. Give me guys who play well and listen to each other over egocentric virtuosos any day and I'm a lot happier.:cool:

A bit of introspection might be of use as well. Why do any of us pick up an instrument in the first place! Are the motivations about music or do the involve other needs and wants?:hiding:
 
#90
Seems like the best use of the "will" or "ego" in music, is to figure out how best to serve the group, moment by moment. Its all about service to something bigger than any of us.

If the group/music ain't happening, it doesn't matter if you think you are happening, or not. Its all about hitching up our egos to pull the music.

Heard some music last weekend; a saxophonist, whose band I used to play with. The music was great, the band sounded like love.

The bass player was the kind of player who froze up every time he was asked to solo and sort of noodled around. I felt his awkwardness then, but the rest of the time, in the ensemble playing, he was lovin' it.

My sax-playing friend asked me what I though of the bass player. I said, "He sounds good and he lets the band sound great. He does a great job of letting you, the drummer, and guitarist play your a*sses off without ever worrying about where the time is."
 
#92
Eric Swanson said:
The bass player was the kind of player who froze up every time he was asked to solo and just sort of noodled around vaguely. I felt his awkwardness in those halting solos, but the rest of the time, in the ensemble playing, he was fully in synch with the band.
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Next time you're in my town please introduce yourself . . . .:help:

THis is a great thread that's worth going over several time.
 
#94
David Kaczorowski said:
Listener, for now at least.
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As a listener, stuff either speaks to you or it doesn't. And exactly the same stuff can hit it one day and miss it another. And yes, some of what you are hearing and your reaction to it is governed by what you like and how deeply you can hear etc. Personal experience has been that guys who never listen to the rhythm section and blow what they're gonna blow no matter who was on the stand with them, tend to like other players who do that. And just can't get with anybody who doesn't play like that.

And for the non musician listener, it's very much governed by what they are open to hearing. There's not a lot of ears finely tuned to nuance out there, what tends to get over is energy, tempo and notes per bar....
 
#95
Treyzer said:
Egotism is defined as; The tendency to refer to oneself excessively or boastfully, 2. self importance 3. conceit.

Confidence, on the other hand, is referred to as; 1. reliance or trust. 3. a feeling of self assurance.
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Thanks for making the distinction. I do still think that confidence and egotism can be somewhat related, as with someone who is "overly confident".

Regardless of that, I agree with the entire sentiment of your post. It sometimes seems that people who play this way are dealing with other issues not necessarily related to music. I find myself wishing that they'd go deal with them somewhere else - like the shrink's office instead of the bandstand!
 
#99
Ed Fuqua said:
As a listener, stuff either speaks to you or it doesn't. And exactly the same stuff can hit it one day and miss it another. And yes, some of what you are hearing and your reaction to it is governed by what you like and how deeply you can hear etc. Personal experience has been that guys who never listen to the rhythm section and blow what they're gonna blow no matter who was on the stand with them, tend to like other players who do that. And just can't get with anybody who doesn't play like that.

And for the non musician listener, it's very much governed by what they are open to hearing. There's not a lot of ears finely tuned to nuance out there, what tends to get over is energy, tempo and notes per bar....
Click to expand...

This seems appropriate to the discussion I think. Evelyn Glennie - How to listen to music with your whole body.

I like the Scottish accent as well. I like the way she gets into explaining what sound is. Perhaps it will be a valuable 34 minutes or 34 minutes you won't get back.
 

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