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Double Bass Music VS Ego

#21
Marcus Johnson said:
If everything's right, the room and everything in it disappears, the bass disappears, and the actual manipulation of the bass isn't even a consideration. It's just about sound at that point. And those are the times when you might see me look at my watch after playing for ninety minutes, and look surprised, because it felt like about five. I love those times.
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As much as I am the neophyte, I have experience this sorta thing in my own way, albeit only brief split second moments when playing jazz. I experienced it more so when I used to do more Brazilian percussion when the music was much more "simple" but had a big crowd (the dancers) who really made the magic come together.

For me, when things come together, I feel like everything starts to levitate. The crowd, the band, the room... everything starts to float as if it's on an invisible groovy carpet ride. When I did the brazilian stuff, the ride would for about 10 minutes at a time. Just wow. When it comes to jazz soloing, I feel like that fledgling bird. My solos have a brief moment when I make it off the ground. Man, that's why I play and what I strive for. To make that feeling last as long as possible. To basically try to "take flight".

When playing with a master, they're sooo good at flying that they just sweep you up into the wake they leave behind. You can't help but take off with them.

Anyways, at this point in time, I'm just striving to be a team player. I feel like with jazz, it's like playing a pickup game of softball or baseball, except there are no opponents. If you get big ego-headed, then the game's a wreck. If you strive for teamwork, then you play your "position" and the game flows. Sometimes I feel like I start being a kid again and pretend I'm a famous player like Ray Brown or whatever. I'm just enjoying catching that grounder and throwing to second base and not trying to get all the runners out.
 
#22
DON AURELIUS said:
If everything's right, the room and everything in it disappears, the bass disappears, and the actual manipulation of the bass isn't even a consideration. It's just about sound at that point. And those are the times when you might see me look at my watch after playing for ninety minutes, and look surprised, because it felt like about five. I love those times.
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Yup, that pretty much sums it up. Silly as it sounds, I actually practice a lot with my eyes closed since I play that way. Sight is always a distraction to me at times like those described above. I also notice that when I'm in that zone, I eat like a lion afterward. It takes it out of you, but always gives something back.
 
#23
Red Mitchell said that jazz was a great political model because communism says man is a groupish animal and capitalism says man is a selfish animal and to make good jazz you have to be both at once.

I think above all you need to care for and about your own music, otherwise how can you expect anyone else to? You should be proud of what you are doing and if not make the changes you need to become proud.
A lot of artists and musicians act like they are ashamed of their work and that is far worse that having a big ego.
I put a ton of work into my music and playing the instrument. I have my shortcomings and areas that need work like anyone but I am happy about what I have done so far, otherwise I would find something else to do!
These things have to be balanced, being ashamed of your work or being an egotistical ass are equally bad.
 
#26
Jason Sypher said:
If you concentrate on making everyone else sound good you'll be on the right track. It's about giving, not taking.
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I agree with the sentiment, but the problem is it is "about" a lot of things - many that even seem to contradict each other.
Trying to sum up playing music in any one word or phrase is a really bad plan.
Sometimes what is needed is to pull the rug out from under other players!
When I saw Dave Holland, I noticed that During Antonio Hart's solos he did not give him any straight time until the very end. Hart is a fantastic but very traditional player - and by doing that Holland made the music a lot more interesting.
 
#27
damonsmith said:
When I saw Dave Holland, I noticed that During Antonio Hart's solos he did not give him any straight time until the very end. Hart is fantastic but very traditional player - and by doing that Holland made the music a lot more interesting.
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Depending on ones point of view this could be considered giving as well. It's an attentive player knowing what support to provide to catalyze an "in the moment" response from another. That's much more giving than banging through changes waiting for your turn to blow.
 
#29
Uncletoad said:
Depending on ones point of view this could be considered giving as well. It's an attentive player knowing what support to provide to catalyze an "in the moment" response from another. That's much more giving than banging through changes waiting for your turn to blow.
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I was just going to say the same type of thing. This is interplay of the highest level. Daves good taste and musical consideration ( our own as well ) is the important issue. This sounds like a ' duet ' or ala Bill and Scotty, a conversation. Bill Evans' fabulous " Conversations With Myself. " Are a great teaching tool for us to learn how to "play off" of each other in an intimate and considerate fashion. Luckily, for me, when I worked with Bill, it was before the advent of bass amps and before my chops and ego issues kicked in, so I was able to play less overbearing and selfish musical statements.
During my brief gig with Jim Hall, he would turn around and say to me.." Lets play together " , an invitation to try to pull off a musical excursion, hopefully, similar to the beautiful stuff he did with Paul Desmond.
 
#30
I probably mentioned this already but this summer I involuntarily volunteered myself to play a duo with Bruce Forman at the Golden Gate Bass Camp. I had come to the camp wanting to know about what I can do about what I can do in a duo situation as it seems like there's ALL THIS SPACE that needs to get filled up.

Long story short, while playing there were all these subtle things going on beyond the norm. The big one for me was that he was very into eye contact (something alot of us tend to avoid), and very into the "lets play together" attitude that PaW is talking about. Once I stopped trying to play "more", it enjoyed a tune with him and it was a hell of a lot of fun not to mention things started to gel alot better. To sum it up, he said to me in a sorta Koan like phrase: "Make big things out of little things, don't try to make big things out of big things".
 
#32
damonsmith said:
Red Mitchell said that jazz was a great political model because communism says man is a groupish animal and capitalism says man is a selfish animal and to make good jazz you have to be both at once.
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Yes! I have thought about this in relation to jazz. I have also thought this about basketball, which shares a similar balance of team interaction and individual performance when done properly.

For me, when things come together, I feel like everything starts to levitate. The crowd, the band, the room... everything starts to float as if it's on an invisible groovy carpet ride.
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Both Diddy and Marcus nailed this too. That feeling where the room lights up and becomes dark at the same time. Thought, gravity, the audience and yes even the bass disappears. you can hear each individual voice in the band combine and bounce around the room, the walls become the music. Your body isn't even aware it is playing. fantastic. Definitely what I strive for in making music, almost as if the goal in practicing our instrument, as in practicing meditation, is to maximize the chances for arriving at this state at will.

And, in another basketball analogy, this is exactly what being "in the zone" is like. Where everything is suddenly in slow motion, and you can almost see and feel what is going to happen before it occurs, action and reaction is effortless. It is absolute clarity, where thoughts disappear and as Sun Ra might say, everything is space.
 
#33
so im the house bass player at this jam session every sunday that i go too, and normally i am a pretty simple bass player i must say.

BUT

whenever my one friend walks in i have the urge to play all of this really complicated mumbo jumbo blah blah blah. I must say i play alot of things i at the time am surprised at. but the really funny part is after im done playing and he goes up to play, he does the EXACT SAME THING!

but i mean, who doesnt like showing off?
 
#36
On a related note, very often after some dazzling fast 32-chorus horn solos (especially at jam sessions) I will do a "simple" melodic bass solo with lots of space..........for only 2 choruses. Reasons:

1. I'm tired - next tune!
2. Contrast............
3. My way of saying "how 'bout some space?"
4. I like to play that way. THAT'S hard! (Red, Hodges, etc)


The Bigger picture is where it's at - the collective - the group sound - people are just too often obsessed with themselves.

I'm always coming down on a composer friend of mine who is also a hell of a pianist. He doesn't think so. Reason? He can't play really fast. He more than makes up for it with melody RHYTHM and sheer creativity. People really forget what music is about, or better yet, why they got into it in the first place (I'll betcha you started playing because it was fun)
 
#40
hi, my last post was abit of a line,so apologies for that,anyways..i feel its not about a simplistic approach versus a lots of technique approach, some people like to make music and some people like to have a masturbatory relationship with their instrument,music is always great and pure and important, jerking off is just jerking off..anyway what do i know i'm the scottish equivalent of a hick
 

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