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Musicians who ARE sound professionals.

#21
I studied mixing engineering on my own, and it's taken a whole lot of time, work, and study, and has all been worth it. Not currently working as an engineer but I have in the past.

What I got a kick out of is studio guys who would take the Pro Tools class and try to talk down to me...until I got hired to re-do their mediocre, dull-sounding mixes. This being Atlanta, every part of the music industry/scene here is full of people trying to do things with minimal effort, including in the studio and in live settings. I've only done a little bit of live sound, but have had to go to the board to rescue an awful sound setup on numerous occasions...things from vocal feedback due to the lows being boosted to gain pots being either clipped out or turned low with faders maxed out.

I've been lucky enough not to have to deal with it while on stage, but realize it's just a matter of time. At the same time, I wish more venues gave a damn about being known for having incompetent sound staff.
 
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#22
Over the past 8 years, it turns out that about 1 in 4 soundfolks will provide a nice bad mix including one with no bass at all. The BIG turning point here was playing a private party with a well-known Texas artist at a private ranch. The PA gear was top-notch, the operators were noobs. Even the "star" and his band sounded like garbage in their soundcheck. After that for shows that the sound system operator quality is unknown, a mini-PA is my rig. If I wireless out into the audience and bass is missing, I'll be glad to provide it. For shows with FOH and a good operator only a 12" kickback is used like a stage monitor as lows come from the FOH sub(and the GOOD sound guys appreciate that).

The only pro-course taken by me was audio engineering in college as an elective during electrical engineering although ex-wives and others can testify as-to how many books(including Bob Heil's) got bought, read, and shelved for reference. In past lives, PA's were assembled, snakes built by hand, racks put together, AC distro fabricated, etc. and with a friend who is now a well-known and very competent sound guy.

Dealing with it? ALWAYS treat the soundfolks with respect and cooperation unless they exhibit extreme lack of ability. After that, still treat them with respect but agree to disagree. Two rigs below for reference. They work well.

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#23
What concerns me more than sound guys' dedication to excellence or lack thereof is the changing landscape in terms of what people perceive as being a good "live sound." What I've been hearing more and more in recent years out in front is massive kick, muddy bass, little or no mids and a bit of high end tinkle over all of that. Is this really what people are hearing in their heads? If so, God help us.
 
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#25
interp said:
What concerns me more than sound guys' dedication to excellence or lack thereof is the changing landscape in terms of what people perceive as being a good "live sound." What I've been hearing more and more in recent years out in front is massive kick, muddy bass, little or no mids and a bit of high end tinkle over all of that. Is this really what people are hearing in their heads? If so, God help us.
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Indeed that seems to be the new norm :( .
 
#27
Slapstyle said:
So, I'm a sound guy. I do it for a living. It's what I went to school for. Now I teach audio at the Collegiate level. I worked hard, studied hard, and learned a lot. I may have learned more in practical application than I learned in school and I'm not an elitist who thinks school is the only way and if you didn't study audio, you don't know what you're doing.

Here's my thing though. As a performing musician, I sometimes work with sound guys. IT DRIVES ME BONKERS to see someone BEING PAID to do a mediocre or terrible job. A little ego driven maybe, but knowing I could do it a hundred times better just kills me. Anyone else deal with this? Stories and anecdotes?
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Pro Sound Technicians always use high end equipment. What are some of the brands and type of system you are using ?
 
#28
Sal Z. said:
Pro Sound Technicians always use high end equipment. What are some of the brands and type of system you are using ?
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Is this like a pop quiz? Like... if you're REALLY a sound guy, you'll know about console x? Depends on the gig. I don't personally own any live sound stuff. I have a decent pro tools rig for recording and some nice Tannoy monitors. Suits me fine. At Maine Public Broadcasting we're running an older Mackie 32-8 analog board and not much else as far as processing, since most of the stuff we do is Classical music or talk. We also do Jazz but the most processing I do on live jazz is adding some reverb, which is an unfortunate necessity. At New England School of Communications we use a lot of the high end Avid stuff like the Icon in the studio and the Venue in the theater but there's also a whole host of Neve consoles, Soundcraft, some cheesy British analog consoles, tons of Genelec speaker systems, LA-2a's, Distressors. You get the idea. Best of the best stuff. Very nice facility to work in.
 
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#30
Slapstyle said:
Is this like a pop quiz? Like... if you're REALLY a sound guy, you'll know about console x? Depends on the gig. I don't personally own any live sound stuff. I have a decent pro tools rig for recording and some nice Tannoy monitors. Suits me fine. At Maine Public Broadcasting we're running an older Mackie 32-8 analog board and not much else as far as processing, since most of the stuff we do is Classical music or talk. We also do Jazz but the most processing I do on live jazz is adding some reverb, which is an unfortunate necessity. At New England School of Communications we use a lot of the high end Avid stuff like the Icon in the studio and the Venue in the theater but there's also a whole host of Neve consoles, Soundcraft, some cheesy British analog consoles, tons of Genelec speaker systems, LA-2a's Distressors. You get the idea. Best of the best stuff. Very nice facility to work in.
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No Slapstyle, this is not a pop quiz nor a test to see if your really a sound guy. I'm a student of sound and have been since the early 1970's. I'm interested in brands and techniques that are being used. There is so much being offered and I like to know about new equipment. There is not much I do not have but still I enjoy reading. Thank you
 
#32
Sal Z. said:
No Slapstyle, this is not a pop quiz nor a test to see if your really a sound guy. I'm a student of sound and have been since the early 1970's. I'm interested in brands and techniques that are being used. There is so much being offered and I like to know about new equipment. There is not much I do not have but still I enjoy reading. Thank you
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My bad brotha! I got defensive and you're just a little gear horny. I get it. :) Here's some gear porn:
 
#34
Yup im with you....I hear shows with so called sound techs that sound like crap all the timeit drives me crazy.....Give me a crowd of a 400 to 600 a pair of 2 15,s and a horn tops 4 18,s subs about 2000 watts a side a boards with a 12 band EQ with parametrics and i can make any band sound great..Why ? because i know what a Strat/Tele/Les Paul/SG Jazz/P/Stingray/Sterling sound like i understand they all have their own voice and tones and they can very easily be found with a parametric eq .Keyboards and drums are soooo simple to mix.....Here,s my biggest sound guy peive...everyone of them seem so insistant on recieving the bass signal before your amp...i just did sound for a show didnt even offer a DI to any of the 14 bands bass players i mixed over the 2 day show every bass players amp had its own DI out i dont understand the big deal...............PS out of all these bands i mixed those 2 days i found the Bass players very easy to mix almost every bass i mixed the only thing besides treble ,input gain and volume was i only needed to dial in each basses sweet spot with the bass channel parametic eq it was that easy for me .
 
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#35
stonewall said:
Yup im with you....I hear shows with so called sound techs that sound like crap all the timeit drives me crazy.....Give me a crowd of a 400 to 600 a pair of 2 15,s and a horn tops 4 18,s subs about 2000 watts a side a boards with a 12 band EQ with parametrics and i can make any band sound great..Why ? because i know what a Strat/Tele/Les Paul/SG Jazz/P/Stingray/Sterling sound like i understand they all have their own voice and tones and they can very easily be found with a parametric eq .Keyboards and drums are soooo simple to mix.....Here,s my biggest sound guy peive...everyone of them seem so insistant on recieving the bass signal before your amp...i just did sound for a show didnt even offer a DI to any of the 14 bands bass players i mixed over the 2 day show every bass players amp had its own DI out i dont understand the big deal...............PS out of all these bands i mixed those 2 days i found the Bass players very easy to mix almost every bass i mixed the only thing besides treble ,input gain and volume was i only needed to dial in each basses sweet spot with the bass channel parametic eq it was that easy for me .
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You are showing your ignorance with this post. Care to name a board with a 12 band EQ? Not only that but spellcheck wouldn't hurt either.
 
#37
Hi Slap. It's good to hear about your side of things, or bad as the case may be for you. I've roadied, done live sound, and run my own small demo studio for some time now. (Although I've been way to busy playing bass lately to do any of that.) I own a very small system which I've used with local bands. Unlike you, I haven't had formal training, and I really wish I had. I've learned a lot from some local pros, from engineers in studios I've worked at, and from reading and researching as much as I can, but it wouldn't compare to a proper and solid basic education in the discipline.

Maybe I've been lucky, but in my experience as a performer, I've dealt with more good sound professionals than bad. Most have been avid listeners, who take pride in supplying an excellent product. Of course, just as with musicians, there are some people who just 'phone it in' at a gig. As a freelancer, I get stuck with working with those people too occasionally. I don't get it myself. I love music, and I'm happiest contributing to it, on either side of the desk.
 

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