My Dirt Bender - Another Jounal

[projectapollo]

I can't tell you exactly why, but I still have that Xotic BB Bass Preamp in the place where I want a low gain drive with a very organic sound. Probably because it's a really good low gain drive with an organic sound. The Fake Plastic Trees and the DCX Bass are great choices for the same position, but I somehow am so happy with the Xotic in that position that I won't change it. But I absolutely will probe for these capabilities on the Jellyfish next.

New here catching up on this journey. Based on a TB member recommendation, I put the Xotic BB Bass on my worship board this week in front of the Tone Hammer w/AGS. The two were very nicely additive. They filled the tone spot I used to fill with the BassRig SV.

 

[el murdoque]

New here catching up on this journey. Based on a TB member recommendation, I put the Xotic BB Bass on my worship board this week in front of the Tone Hammer w/AGS. The two were very nicely additive. They filled the tone spot I used to fill with the BassRig SV.

How are you using them? I've always had the 'usual" problem with the Tonehammer. Step on the AGS and your levels jump so hard, you'll need a limiter to catch it, but then you can't use the DI out.
Are you using the Tonehammer for the sound shaping and the BB as the (switchable) drive?

 

[projectapollo]

How are you using them? I've always had the 'usual" problem with the Tonehammer. Step on the AGS and your levels jump so hard, you'll need a limiter to catch it, but then you can't use the DI out.
Are you using the Tonehammer for the sound shaping and the BB as the (switchable) drive?

On most worship boards the Tone Hammer is used with AGS always-on with gain set (around noon with a lot of mid-cut) to near clean playing lightly which then gets gritty when digging in with fingers then a pick. The drive level progresses very nicely with playing attack on the TH/AGS. Just set the output gain across the "engage" switch to unity gain and you can turn off the TH with no volume change. You just can't toggle the AGS on/off. We all use AGS always-on to workaround that design problem. It works really well.

Kick in the second level drive for bigger sections. The second level drive choices have been my journey. Tried Blumes, Kilt, Calamity, Pork and Pickle, DCX/OD, Fuzzistor, Tremond, Gladio, various Jam pedals, etc.

I came across the Xotic BB and like it a lot. I discovered this journal researching the Xotic devices. I also have a Fake Plastic Tress on loan with option to buy and that is very interesting as well. So far, the Xotic saturation matches up to the TH/AGS and just adds the next level drive in a very additive way. The FPT has more of its own amp-like character that's a bit different than the TH/AGS and sounds like a new thing when added. In the mix it's subtle, however.

Been enjoying catching up on this thread. Good collection of information in one place with great writing.

 

[el murdoque]

On most worship boards the Tone Hammer is used with AGS always-on with gain set (around noon with a lot of mid-cut) to near clean playing lightly which then gets gritty when digging in with fingers then a pick. The drive level progresses very nicely with playing attack on the TH/AGS. Just set the output gain across the "engage" switch to unity gain and you can turn off the TH with no volume change. You just can't toggle the AGS on/off. We all use AGS always-on to workaround that design problem. It works really well.

Yeah, that's what I meant. They could have put the AGS on a switch or button that is finger-operated because they wasted an expensive part (foot switch) on something you would not dare kick in mid-song.

Kick in the second level drive for bigger sections. The second level drive choices have been my journey. Tried Blumes, Kilt, Calamity, Pork and Pickle, DCX/OD, Fuzzistor, Tremond, Gladio, various Jam pedals, etc.

Stacking dirt is the hardest bit IMO, because there are so many factors that influence the outcome - and it's more or less impossible to find reviews or watch online demos that try stacking the exact combination you're after.

My go-to for the metal band has not changed in a while, and it's the FPT into the Meatsmoke into the Bassrig SV, with the Meatsmoke's boost channel as a second gain stage. Needless to say it took a while to arrive there.

I came across the Xotic BB and like it a lot. I discovered this journal researching the Xotic devices. I also have a Fake Plastic Tress on loan with option to buy and that is very interesting as well. So far, the Xotic saturation matches up to the TH/AGS and just adds the next level drive in a very additive way. The FPT has more of its own amp-like character that's a bit different than the TH/AGS and sounds like a new thing when added. In the mix it's subtle, however.

Yeah, they are quite different beasts, even though they have the same knob layout and on paper, they essentially do the exact same thing.
However, the FPT has a lot more character to it and feels like a completely different thing when you play into it.

Been enjoying catching up on this thread. Good collection of information in one place with great writing.

Thanks!

 

[el murdoque]

I did, in the recent weeks, slide into a self-experiment. First by chance, later by design.

Here's what I did:

I subjected myself to the self-mutilation of playing that Headrush exclusively. It started when I just wanted to play a few minutes and both my pedalboards where in their bags/cases, not hooked up to the system while the Headrush was and I thought that it's not worth the effort to set up either board to play a bit and then getting it all packed up for band practice. Then the band practices were cancelled and before I knew it, I had quite a lot of time on the Headrush, so I decided to continue down that path, make it 'mine'. Yesterday, I did tear apart half of the man-cave and rearranged everything, ran the cables and all that jazz, and when I was done, I decided it's time to compare.

What can I say. It was a nice confirmation that all that effort is actually worth it.
The Headrush, as I claimed earlier in this thread, has a few things going for it.
It's small enough to fit into the front pocket of my gig bag, and it does a variety of credible sounds, plus it allows quick tweaking of parameters, so it's a nice companion to bring to a jam session. Easy transport, no high-value item that is impossible to replace, something you can leave on stage while having a beer in the back.

But!

Plugging into the Meatsmoke driven pedalboard felt incredible. The connection between fingertips and eardrums is THAT much better, and the sound also is.
Fun fact: The dirt sounded off, but still felt miles better than the headrush - until I realized that I had changed the order of inputs on my mixer and was feeding a signal that's way too hot, so I was getting clipping from the mixer. Adjusting the gain took care of that and from there it was pure bliss. I planned on testing A/B for a while but I actually ended up playing the analog board with a stupid grin pinned to my face, maybe even drooling a little.
There is the slightest bit of lag in the headrush. Something you get used to, but it simply feels like you're spacing out the string - finger - ear connection a little bit further than it should be.
I think I'm healed

 

[GrowlerBox]

I think I'm healed

Welcome back again. For real this time .

 

[el murdoque]

Welcome back again. For real this time .

To celebrate the matter, I bought something hand made, discontinued and while not exactly super rare, anything but common.
If I'm lucky, It shall arrive before the weekend, but I fear it'll be Monday.

 

[el murdoque]

...and I'd like to thank you again for the recommendation of the Prunes & Custard, @GrowlerBox .
I played with it tonight, just some jamming along to funk backing tracks, and IMHO, that's all you need to get a synthy funky quack sound out of your rig.
It's not super versatile, but no analog synth chain ever is. I mean - just stare at the gain knob on your fuzz a little too long, and the response from the envelope is off.
Compared to other options it is small, it is robust, it is analog and it's a ton of fun. I can really see myself replacing the Doom2 + PX101 with this one.

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

Hey @el murdoque i’ve enjoyed reading this thread and your journal!
We apparently have some similar tastes, and we have some dissimilar
What would you say have been the least compressed drives you’ve played?
I know the DCXBass is on there, but what else?

 

[el murdoque]

Hey @el murdoque i’ve enjoyed reading this thread and your journal!
We apparently have some similar tastes, and we have some dissimilar
What would you say have been the least compressed drives you’ve played?
I know the DCXBass is on there, but what else?

What comes to mind immediately, but won't really help you at all: The Doom2.
When you play that pedal into an envelope filter, you realize that it lets an incredible amount of dynamics pass.
More serious answer: I think the Nobels ODR-1 feels incredibly open.

 

[GrowlerBox]

...and I'd like to thank you again for the recommendation of the Prunes & Custard, @GrowlerBox .
I played with it tonight, just some jamming along to funk backing tracks, and IMHO, that's all you need to get a synthy funky quack sound out of your rig.
It's not super versatile, but no analog synth chain ever is. I mean - just stare at the gain knob on your fuzz a little too long, and the response from the envelope is off.
Compared to other options it is small, it is robust, it is analog and it's a ton of fun. I can really see myself replacing the Doom2 + PX101 with this one.

Absolutely my pleasure, and happy to wave my adopted flag. I don’t use it routinely, but whenever I do kick it on, it makes me smile .

 

[el murdoque]

What comes to mind immediately, but won't really help you at all: The Doom2.
When you play that pedal into an envelope filter, you realize that it lets an incredible amount of dynamics pass.
More serious answer: I think the Nobels ODR-1 feels incredibly open.

Thinking further on it, I would like to add that both the Nobels ODR-1 and the Wampler Belle that went through my hands were indeed compressing the signal - when you considered the metering of my electonic gizmos. Going by feel and ear alone, I would have never guessed it because they absolutely did not feel like they were doing that.

 

[butterfingers1]

Hey @el murdoque
What would you say have been the least compressed drives you’ve played?
I know the DCXBass is on there, but what else?

Damnation Audio MBD3 maybe?

 

[el murdoque]

I think this is a moment for a discussion: Compression in dirt pedals.

While some compression simply has to set in when using overdrive, because it's the nature of the thing, there might be a fair amount of misunderstanding when talking about how much a pedal does or does not compress the signal.

When you personally are talking about that, and when you're evaluating it, do you use your ears and feeling, or do you hook the pedal up to audio gear and measure the amount of compression that actually happens.

The Wampler Belle is a great example for that case. When you hook it up to the machine and look at the readouts, you will get a clear and easy result: The pedal compresses a lot - in the way that at a certain point, when you increase the input volume, you will barely increase the output volume, but get more saturation from the pedal. When you let your ears and fingers be the judge, you would not agree that much, because the pedal simply does not feel like it is doing that, it actually feels quite lively.

 

[butterfingers1]

That’s interesting. How would one describe the MBD3 and DCX Bass in this light?

 

[el murdoque]

That’s interesting. How would one describe the MBD3 and DCX Bass in this light?

The DCX, I'd describe as super open in the EQ setting,
and somewhat compressed in the OD setting - it's really changing tack when you flip the switch.

The MBD3, I've not played - only the ancestors MBD2 and MBD. I'd say with these, it depends a lot on the chosen settings on the pedal. Especially the Blend (which is not really a 100% dry blend) and the Depth knobs change the result of how the pedal sounds and feels. You can run it as a subtle drive that adds mostly only a hint of hair on top, and then you don't feel it squeezing dynamics much. When you dime it for a raspy and powerful drive sound, you get loads of squish.

 

[GrowlerBox]

I think this is a moment for a discussion: Compression in dirt pedals.

While some compression simply has to set in when using overdrive, because it's the nature of the thing, there might be a fair amount of misunderstanding when talking about how much a pedal does or does not compress the signal.

When you personally are talking about that, and when you're evaluating it, do you use your ears and feeling, or do you hook the pedal up to audio gear and measure the amount of compression that actually happens.

The Wampler Belle is a great example for that case. When you hook it up to the machine and look at the readouts, you will get a clear and easy result: The pedal compresses a lot - in the way that at a certain point, when you increase the input volume, you will barely increase the output volume, but get more saturation from the pedal. When you let your ears and fingers be the judge, you would not agree that much, because the pedal simply does not feel like it is doing that, it actually feels quite lively

I think this is a moment for a discussion: Compression in dirt pedals.

While some compression simply has to set in when using overdrive, because it's the nature of the thing, there might be a fair amount of misunderstanding when talking about how much a pedal does or does not compress the signal.

When you personally are talking about that, and when you're evaluating it, do you use your ears and feeling, or do you hook the pedal up to audio gear and measure the amount of compression that actually happens.

The Wampler Belle is a great example for that case. When you hook it up to the machine and look at the readouts, you will get a clear and easy result: The pedal compresses a lot - in the way that at a certain point, when you increase the input volume, you will barely increase the output volume, but get more saturation from the pedal. When you let your ears and fingers be the judge, you would not agree that much, because the pedal simply does not feel like it is doing that, it actually feels quite lively.

To me, a certain amount of compression adds to the sense of liveliness by increasing the feedback in the feel under the fingers, if that’s the coreect way to describe the sensation, and it’s why I almost always have some compression dialled in. This is especially the case on fretless, as it seems to help me play in tune, a bit like playing unplugged, where the feeling of the note under the fingers of both hands and the body of the bass against the torso play as big a role as the sound itself. There are, of course, diminishing returns at higher levels of compression/clipping, and one can easily kill the feel altogether by overdoing it.

Perhaps the type of clipping exhibited by the circuit also makes a difference here — hard or soft, symmetrical or asymmetrical, etc. Different dirt circuits have different effects on the attack, sustain and envelope of the note. It also seems likely that the EQ curve would play a significant role in generating the feel, particularly in the relative presence or absence of the mid-range, or specific parts of the mid-range.

Early morning ramble over. Must be time for some coffee.

 

[projectapollo]

Dirt Subscribers..... I've listed a Fake Plastic Trees. Pretty awesome device.

 

[dedpool1052]

The DCX, I'd describe as super open in the EQ setting,
and somewhat compressed in the OD setting - it's really changing tack when you flip the switch.

The MBD3, I've not played - only the ancestors MBD2 and MBD. I'd say with these, it depends a lot on the chosen settings on the pedal. Especially the Blend (which is not really a 100% dry blend) and the Depth knobs change the result of how the pedal sounds and feels. You can run it as a subtle drive that adds mostly only a hint of hair on top, and then you don't feel it squeezing dynamics much. When you dime it for a raspy and powerful drive sound, you get loads of squish.

Seeing as I own all 3 iterations of the MBD, and the DCX, I agree %.

 

[el murdoque]

I do hope that the Mailperson will ring today, delivering a long anticipated parcel, containing a long anticipated dirt pedal, so I can do the jounaling some more