My Dirt Bender - Another Jounal

[el murdoque]

The signal path is as follows: tuner - Ultimate Drive - RFE (in the clean FX loop of the Ultimate Drive) - Jive

I understand your concern about the placement of the RFE.

There are several reasons for me to have it wired as described:

• it allows me to cut highs and mids from the clean channel of the Ultimate Drive (with LPF set at 330Hz) without affecting the drive channel; the result is similar to biamp setup: clean lows and driven mids and highs (the drive channel on the Ultimate drive is basically a band-pass filter with peak at the frequency determined by the position of the Tone control)
• having HPF in the Clean FX loop helps the compressor to operate properly (within the Ultimate Drive, the FX loops are placed before the compressor)
• my drives do not create "unwanted" harmonics, i.e. with moderate settings which I use, all harmonics created are "wanted"..

Uuuh, quite sophisticated!

 

[Zbysek]

I have played the pedal in the past, but never got over what I called a dramatic design failure, mapping a function to a footswitch that is essentially unusable because of how the levels jump.

I don't get this complaint.

First: the pedal can be used to jump between clean and driven at unity level: one simply use the Engage switch instead of the AGS switch

Second: the fact that there is a diference in levels between AGS on and AGS off is well known. Calling it a design failure implies that the pedal cannot be used properly. Yet, there are many players who use this pedal and swear by it. One can either ignore the AGS footswitch or use it as an advantage. I use the switch for attenuation during quiet parts of songs-when I don't want the full level, like when the Band leader introduces the band, etc...

 

[Zbysek]

Uuuh, quite sophisticated!

It should be...considering the amount of time (rather significant) I spent on deliberating about this signal chain...

 

[el murdoque]

It should be...considering the amount of time (rather significant) I spent on deliberating about this signal chain...

Do you run one of the pedals always on, or do you use them to get different levels of drive when you want them?

 

[Zbysek]

Do you run one of the pedals always on, or do you use them to get different levels of drive when you want them?

I run all three pedals always on (except for the tuner). I use the boost footswitch on the Ultimate drive to get two levels of drive...

 

[el murdoque]

I don't get this complaint.

First: the pedal can be used to jump between clean and driven at unity level: one simply use the Engage switch instead of the AGS switch

Second: the fact that there is a diference in levels between AGS on and AGS off is well known. Calling it a design failure implies that the pedal cannot be used properly. Yet, there are many players who use this pedal and swear by it. One can either ignore the AGS footswitch or use it as an advantage. I use the switch for attenuation during quiet parts of songs-when I don't want the full level, like when the Band leader introduces the band, etc...

I get your point, but.

When I look at the pedal's description and its functions, then I get the impression that I can dial in a tone and then get a drive sound by engaging the AGS knob.
The fact that this function is mapped to a footswitch suggests that you can use it mid-song, else they could have just used a much cheaper push button.

What you describe sounds more or less workarounds, or alternative ways to make use of the thing in a way it was not intended. Or was it? I honestly cannot tell. The manual states that with Gain past 1 o'clock, you get 16dB boost.
I would not know when I'd ever need a boost or reduction of this magnitude on a pedal that is meant to go last in chain.

Coming from a long line of preamp pedals and hitting this, my intuition and my general understanding of how these things are used were completely taken by surprise on how it felt using the AGS.

 

[Zbysek]

I get your point, but.

When I look at the pedal's description and its functions, then I get the impression that I can dial in a tone and then get a drive sound by engaging the AGS knob.
The fact that this function is mapped to a footswitch suggests that you can use it mid-song, else they could have just used a much cheaper push button.

What you describe sounds more or less workarounds, or alternative ways to make use of the thing in a way it was not intended. Or was it? I honestly cannot tell. The manual states that with Gain past 1 o'clock, you get 16dB boost.
I would not know when I'd ever need a boost or reduction of this magnitude on a pedal that is meant to go last in chain.

Coming from a long line of preamp pedals and hitting this, my intuition and my general understanding of how these things are used were completely taken by surprise on how it felt using the AGS.

The manual clearly speaks about "boost" or even "clean boost":

"With the GAIN set from 7 o'clock to 11 o'clock, AGS gives up to 12dB of clean boost withwarm, glassy, vintage EQ.With the GAIN set from 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock, AGS gives up to 15dB boost, with a littlevintage growl as the EQ tightens up the bass.With the GAIN set from 1 o'clock to maximum, AGS gives up to 16dB boost full of warm,vintage saturation. "

https://www.zikinf.com/manuels/aguilar-tone-hammer-manuel-utilisateur-en-40744.pdf

IMHO, expecting unity level after reading the manual is unfounded, to say the least...and yes, I think it was intended that way.

I understand that 16 db of footswitcheable boost might be unuseable for many players. Those players are free to ignore the footswitch or treat it as a "push button".

After all those years, the complaint wears of. It's a feature, not a defect. Feature you might have no use for...still a feature...

Edit: many devices have features that we don't use. My amp has a tuner output. Do I use the output? No. Is it a reason to get rid of the amp? No. You get the point...

 

[Zbysek]

Just to clarify:

I agree that the implementation of the AGS footswitch on the TH pedal is not ideal...and that Aguilar could have made it more useful.

I just don't agree with posts which present this great-sounding preamp as (almost) unuseable because of this "imperfection"...

 

[el murdoque]

Just to clarify:

I agree that the implementation of the AGS footswitch on the TH pedal is not ideal...and that Aguilar could have made it more useful.

I just don't agree with posts which present this great-sounding preamp as (almost) unuseable because of this "imperfection"...

It's quite easy. If you're sensible and intelligent, you gather information before you make a purchase like this. In that context, you will pick up how the AGS works and make a decision of whether you can make that work in your scenario or not.
If you regard it as a single channel preamp, it is a great pedal. Robust, good EQ, nice baked in sound, good DI, great drive sound.

But when you're like me, you look at the pedal and proclaim "Yes! They have solved a problem of mine! Running the Tone Hammer head, I would have liked a foot switch that lets me add some drive, because while I really like the drive sound from the amp, I don't want it on all the time - and I hate to twiddle amp knobs mid set, messing up the levels.".
I looked at it, saw the second foot switch, and just assumed things.

Furthermore, I do have the required amount of arrogance to then proclaim that my interpretation of how this thing should be is the right one, and the way the Aguilar engineers envisioned it is wrong.

You can't really use my line of argument without obscene amounts of arrogance.

 

[Zbysek]

But when you're like me, you look at the pedal and proclaim "Yes! They have solved a problem of mine! Running the Tone Hammer head, I would have liked a foot switch that lets me add some drive, because while I really like the drive sound from the amp, I don't want it on all the time - and I hate to twiddle amp knobs mid set, messing up the levels.".
I looked at it, saw the second foot switch, and just assumed things.

Fair enough.

There is a solution/workaround: simple clean booster or attenuator placed in front of the TH pedal... Boost the signal when AGS is off, attenuate it when AGS is on...

 

[projectapollo]

I think this is the time to address something I've not addressed yet.
Since I do own a Tonehammer amp, I never bought the pedal.
Which is a shame, because I always liked the dirt sounds of the Tonehammer.
Looking at the pedal and the amp, there are two relevant differences. The amp does not come with an AGS switch, but is equipped with a knob called "Drive" along with the gain knob. My guess would be that on the pedal, you can jump between two fixed settings of the amp's drive knob.
I have played the pedal in the past, but never got over what I called a dramatic design failure, mapping a function to a footswitch that is essentially unusable because of how the levels jump.

However, now I kind of want a Tonehammer pedal.

AGS vs Drive was never quite clear to me. The Storm King says modeled after the amp Drive, they don't ever say it's the AGS circuit - if there is a difference? The one very nice behavior of the THDI with AGS always-on is the gradual onset of overdrive. AGS and Gain can be set quite clean for normal finger style, then very naturally adds drive as you dig in then becomes excellent when switching to a pick. Makes it very suitable for always-on.

 

[el murdoque]

Fair enough.

There is a solution/workaround: simple clean booster or attenuator placed in front of the TH pedal... Boost the signal when AGS is off, attenuate it when AGS is on...

Haha, as if!
A "simple" clean booster? Since when do we do simple in these parts?
This would mean countless hours of googling, reading reviews and watching demos until a shortlist of about a dozen pedals is compiled.
Half of them would of course be some kind of unobtanium models that need to be hunted down over the course of a year, a thread on TB would be opened
(My Clean Bender - Another Jounal), people stepping in with their suggestions, the shortlist grows longer, pedals come in, pedals are sold again.
I really don't know if I have it in me.


Tonehammer fans.
Is it worth going straight for the V2 version with the drive knob or is it better to keep things classy and go for the OG ?
I don't have any use for aux in or headphone out.

 

[el murdoque]

AGS vs Drive was never quite clear to me. The Storm King says modeled after the amp Drive, they don't ever say it's the AGS circuit - if there is a difference? The one very nice behavior of the THDI with AGS always-on is the gradual onset of overdrive. AGS and Gain can be set quite clean for normal finger style, then very naturally adds drive as you dig in then becomes excellent when switching to a pick. Makes it very suitable for always-on.

Whow. Either my brain is really going down the drain or this was changed.

My guess is that Aguilar claimed the Storm King was based on the AGS Circuit of the Tone Hammer, but changed that when the Tone Hammer V2 released.
I've found German translations in online shops that still say it's based on the AGS, so there's that (for my mental sanity).

As mentioned earlier, engaging the AGS switch on the pedal seems to have the same effect as turning the drive knob on the amp head to the 3 o'clock position.

 

[projectapollo]

Tonehammer fans.
Is it worth going straight for the V2 version with the drive knob or is it better to keep things classy and go for the OG ?
I don't have any use for aux in or headphone out.

I did a very close A/B of THDI V1 vs V2. When using the V2 adjustable drive control to get the same level of saturation as V1, the volume bump persists, they did not fix that. The V2 is actual wider and takes more pedal board linear space. Built cheaper. No batteries, no phantom power. The aux/headphone is mono, only. Go V1.

 

[projectapollo]

Whow. Either my brain is really going down the drain or this was changed.

My guess is that Aguilar claimed the Storm King was based on the AGS Circuit of the Tone Hammer, but changed that when the Tone Hammer V2 released.
I've found German translations in online shops that still say it's based on the AGS, so there's that (for my mental sanity).

As mentioned earlier, engaging the AGS switch on the pedal seems to have the same effect as turning the drive knob on the amp head to the 3 o'clock position.

From their Storm King webpage: "Born out of the “Drive” circuit of our Tone Hammer amp"

 

[Zbysek]

Tonehammer fans.
Is it worth going straight for the V2 version with the drive knob or is it better to keep things classy and go for the OG ?
I don't have any use for aux in or headphone out.

I have not had a chance to try the V2...but I had been following the respective thread here on TB. I understand that others reported that the addition of the drive knob does not solve the problem of difference in levels between "channels".

So I've decided to keep the V1 because it can take phantom...which is the usual way I power it.

 

[el murdoque]

I generally have the impression that those recent pedal changes they made are Korg financial controllers bringing down the cost and maximizing profit rather than bringing actual improvements. I liked the old pedals. They sat well on my board, had a distinct look and were high quality.
The newer ones feel much more "standard" and do look like normal pedals. You don't immediately recognize that it's an aguilar any more.

I'll go for the good one.

 

[Zbysek]

I'll go for the good one.

Looking forward to read your report!

 

[projectapollo]

Here is a lovely CCM gain staging demo starting with the TH/AGS core tone.

 

[Zbysek]

The one very nice behavior of the THDI with AGS always-on is the gradual onset of overdrive. AGS and Gain can be set quite clean for normal finger style, then very naturally adds drive as you dig in then becomes excellent when switching to a pick. Makes it very suitable for always-on.

Agreed. This guy demonstrates it (between 8:50 and 10:20).