I see. I might use it with EQ on most of the time. But the ability to switch between two EQ profiles while HPF is on for both of them is a plus...
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
My Dirt Bender - Another Jounal
- Thread starter el murdoque
- Start date
I would have liked to influence the level/gain with the foot switch as well to balance out levels when activating it. If you're gunning for a slightly different sound with small changes or for a boost for soloing, it surely works great.
In my case, I use the small board mainly for jams where I plug straight into a cheap'ish PA, often run without a sound tech, so I essentially have my channel strip at my feet, so I can dial in the sound on the fly.
Given the current pedals being discussed, sharing this board feels pertinent; it's sure winning me a lot of smiles currently!
I love being able to use the Underground Accelerator as just a big, fat, clean tube sound, with the MG Clean carrying the light drive duties.
Messenger Jr at the end of the chain is a godsend for us weekend warriors in the middle of live music land, where we may have use of a PA (and even subwoofer support), but have limited/(or no) sound techs on hand to manage the results. Like Murdoque said, manage it on the fly.
I love being able to use the Underground Accelerator as just a big, fat, clean tube sound, with the MG Clean carrying the light drive duties.
Messenger Jr at the end of the chain is a godsend for us weekend warriors in the middle of live music land, where we may have use of a PA (and even subwoofer support), but have limited/(or no) sound techs on hand to manage the results. Like Murdoque said, manage it on the fly.
Attachments
right on the mark!
I'm actually curious about the more recent Underground Accellerators. I've had an early one and one of the first premium ones, but both caused noise issues in my setups, even though I used clean power to feed them.
The Messenger jr. is a godsend, it's a shame they are so rare - the insane utility of that one makes it a great choice as a last in line pedal, so you can focus on getting the tonal magic sorted out beforehand, for example by running a Morning Glory into a Underground Accelerator. You can correct the midscoop, adjust the bass and treble and set your filters.
Morning Glory!
If you want the full backstory of the Morning Glory, just hit up the JHS Website, it's well documented ;-)
The current model of the Morning Glory is V4, and this is the Morning Glory Clean. It's based off the V4, but it does not replace it - in the ancestry tree of the MG, the Clean is a sibling, not a heir.
Let's quickly look at the controls here.
Volume: Volume.
Tone:
Clean: This is not the volume knob for the clean preamp, this is the mix control. Fully CCW is no clean signal at all, fully CW is completely clean.
Drive: The Drive knob pulls double duty. It sets both the volume of the clean path and the gain of the dirty path.
...so you could say that JHS did not merely mash a clean signal into their most popular pedal to make it more appealing for bassists, but actually poured some thought into this one.
It's a bit like the Horrothia Teeth in a small way: When you're not entirely happy with the exact amount of gain/dirt in your signal, you can use both the clean and the drive knob to make adjustments. Dial forth/back a little bit on the mix and you're getting more/less dirt without changing the color of the response, or dial forth/back on the dirt knob - you're not gonna alter the dry/wet mix volumes - to get a bit of a different response from the drive and of course more or less dirt.
The range of the Drive knob goes from almost nothing to a solid, grindy overdrive - I agree with the assessment that the MG is a low gain overdrive pedal. Low gain overdrive is where it feels and sounds best.
If you want the full backstory of the Morning Glory, just hit up the JHS Website, it's well documented ;-)
The current model of the Morning Glory is V4, and this is the Morning Glory Clean. It's based off the V4, but it does not replace it - in the ancestry tree of the MG, the Clean is a sibling, not a heir.
Let's quickly look at the controls here.
Volume: Volume.
Tone:
Clean: This is not the volume knob for the clean preamp, this is the mix control. Fully CCW is no clean signal at all, fully CW is completely clean.
Drive: The Drive knob pulls double duty. It sets both the volume of the clean path and the gain of the dirty path.
...so you could say that JHS did not merely mash a clean signal into their most popular pedal to make it more appealing for bassists, but actually poured some thought into this one.
It's a bit like the Horrothia Teeth in a small way: When you're not entirely happy with the exact amount of gain/dirt in your signal, you can use both the clean and the drive knob to make adjustments. Dial forth/back a little bit on the mix and you're getting more/less dirt without changing the color of the response, or dial forth/back on the dirt knob - you're not gonna alter the dry/wet mix volumes - to get a bit of a different response from the drive and of course more or less dirt.
The range of the Drive knob goes from almost nothing to a solid, grindy overdrive - I agree with the assessment that the MG is a low gain overdrive pedal. Low gain overdrive is where it feels and sounds best.
I initially liked the MG Clean. Pleasing tones when playing solo. But added to a mix, I wanted more drive and as I tilted away from clean and more dirt the low end started to quickly thin out. Am I correct? Any other knob variations that I overlooked? The Greer Lightspeed improved on this by retaining more low end. But I don't care for the side jacks. I am currently enamored with the Grizzly Bass in this role.
@projectapollo
Here's a sweep through the Clean knob's range.
Drive is set three quarters up, Tone is maxed.
First pass is the Clean knob three quarters up (3 o'clock) then less and less in small increments. Second to last is with Clean at 8 o'clock and last is with Clean completely off, and to my ear, on those two the low end is really lacking.
...which does not really work with the above posted graph, that shows a non-neutered low end. I took the graph with the Drive at noon. Will have to double check.
Here's a sweep through the Clean knob's range.
Drive is set three quarters up, Tone is maxed.
First pass is the Clean knob three quarters up (3 o'clock) then less and less in small increments. Second to last is with Clean at 8 o'clock and last is with Clean completely off, and to my ear, on those two the low end is really lacking.
...which does not really work with the above posted graph, that shows a non-neutered low end. I took the graph with the Drive at noon. Will have to double check.
The Levels are only eyballed, and therefore all over the place - but the 3 o'clock and maximum settings clearly show less bass than the 12 o'clock or 9 o'clock settings.
But those are the rough parts of the Morning Glory.
Here's my personal understanding and approach:
The one thing that sticks out fairly quickly is that the MG Clean's harmonics and added dirt sounds quite harsh, especially for a low gain pedal. The harshness of the drive makes me want to use less of it, and that works out nicely because the tandem of Gain and Mix knob works well towards that end.
As a flatwounds player, the MG Clean instantly works well with both of those knobs at noon and the tone dimed. There's more definition and the tone is snappy, with an emphasis on the good bits of the finger noise. A crisper attack, and more "toan", even though my bass does not quite manage to push it into full saturation. That's a range where I like the pedal nonetheless. A touch more, so that double stops bloom, and with the mix knob above 9 o'clock, I need not worry about the lows missing out or sounding farty.
Add a bit more and it sits well in a mix, add another bit and it's slowly beginning to unravel for me. The gritty, harsher harmonics start sounding a bit disconnected from my sound and it simply stops feeling right - but that is already firmly within the area of solid drive.
Here's my personal understanding and approach:
The one thing that sticks out fairly quickly is that the MG Clean's harmonics and added dirt sounds quite harsh, especially for a low gain pedal. The harshness of the drive makes me want to use less of it, and that works out nicely because the tandem of Gain and Mix knob works well towards that end.
As a flatwounds player, the MG Clean instantly works well with both of those knobs at noon and the tone dimed. There's more definition and the tone is snappy, with an emphasis on the good bits of the finger noise. A crisper attack, and more "toan", even though my bass does not quite manage to push it into full saturation. That's a range where I like the pedal nonetheless. A touch more, so that double stops bloom, and with the mix knob above 9 o'clock, I need not worry about the lows missing out or sounding farty.
Add a bit more and it sits well in a mix, add another bit and it's slowly beginning to unravel for me. The gritty, harsher harmonics start sounding a bit disconnected from my sound and it simply stops feeling right - but that is already firmly within the area of solid drive.
What is this grubby old thing?
Looks like it has been around a bit.
It's something special:
My standards for people are about as high as those for dirt pedals, so this should be a short list?
Page 1:
Why did I dig this one out? Because I had to add user @gillento to it.
Why did I have to do this?
Feast your eyes on this beauty:
Looks like it has been around a bit.
It's something special:
My standards for people are about as high as those for dirt pedals, so this should be a short list?
Page 1:
Why did I dig this one out? Because I had to add user @gillento to it.
Why did I have to do this?
Feast your eyes on this beauty:
Measuring the Bassrig Fifteen turned into an orgy! There are so many options!
Starting with the EQ:
With everything at noon (except for the blend, which is obviously 100% wet), vs. Bass and Treble at their minimum vs maximum positions.
On the AMP OUT (the 1/4" output), there is also the post-drive EQ section, which offers two filters and another two band EQ.
Filters:
LF and HF EQ:
Starting with the EQ:
With everything at noon (except for the blend, which is obviously 100% wet), vs. Bass and Treble at their minimum vs maximum positions.
On the AMP OUT (the 1/4" output), there is also the post-drive EQ section, which offers two filters and another two band EQ.
Filters:
LF and HF EQ:
Moving on to the DI OUT:
The blue line, labeled "everything off" means just that. The cab sim is off, so is the pedal. The output is much lower then, I compensated a bit, also for the "cab sim only" yellow line, where the pedal itself was switched off, but the cab sim switch turned to the 'on' position.
The green line has all the knobs (again, excepting blend) at noon and the cab sim on.
Just because the Morning Glory had me scratching my head for a minute, I did check if raising the Drive knob has a meaningful impact on the EQ:
...which it does not.
...and here is the EQ once more, but this time with the cab sim activated.
The blue line, labeled "everything off" means just that. The cab sim is off, so is the pedal. The output is much lower then, I compensated a bit, also for the "cab sim only" yellow line, where the pedal itself was switched off, but the cab sim switch turned to the 'on' position.
The green line has all the knobs (again, excepting blend) at noon and the cab sim on.
Just because the Morning Glory had me scratching my head for a minute, I did check if raising the Drive knob has a meaningful impact on the EQ:
...which it does not.
...and here is the EQ once more, but this time with the cab sim activated.
Please ignore the last graph. With so many measurements, I got confused and mixed things up a little. I did think the blue line looked a bit funky.
Here's the correct versions.
DI OUT with the cabinet simulation OFF:
DI OUT with the cabinet simulation ON:
Here's the correct versions.
DI OUT with the cabinet simulation OFF:
DI OUT with the cabinet simulation ON:
Would be really nice to compare the Fifteen to the SolidGoldFX BetaV and the Broughton Fliptop, which both seem to aim for this dry LPF effect and tightened but bumped low end.
Very short version, from memory rather than A/B testing:
The Beta V is its own thing, going after the drive capabilities of a vintage tube amp vibe rather than trying to nail the B15.
The Fliptop matches the specs of the B15 on paper, having the same tone stack and a drive section modeled after the original, along with the cab sim that can be blended in seamlessly.
The Fifteen, in contrast, feels and sounds a lot more like playing through a multi layered system of EQ, tube pre and power amp, and vintage 15" cabinet. There is more complexity, more richness and intricacy in the response, feeling and tone. It's what you would expect when you compare a €199 pedal to a €499 pedal that both claim to do the same thing.
I briefly had the Broughton Fliptop and the OE15 together. The OE made me sell the Bro VERY fast. There is NO comparison regarding feel or "organic response" to the touch .... and all this without even using the cab sim.
I hooked it up in my test setup, and for first contact, I did not put it into the dirt pedal position on the test bench, but into the preamp position, using the XLR out and feeding my other pedals into it. Two things became abundantly clear within the first few notes. Firstly, I can't just plop it in, replacing another pedal and expect it to work, especially when the compression, EQ and gain staging of the rest of my pedals all were carefully balanced to cater for the other pedal. The Fifteen has the size, the quality, the reputation and the price tag to demand you create an environment around it, using it as the cornerstone.
Secondly, and this is much harder to put in words, the depth of the thing. I've played a few pedals that hinted towards being B-15 inspired, or B-15 recreations. However, there's a bit more to the iconic little fliptop amp than a tube stage in the preamp and a James (passive Baxandall) EQ. I instantly get the feeling that there are multiple stages my signal passes, and each of them does a little something. This might be true, or it might be clever deception - either by Origin consistently pumping out great pedals for so long that my ear involuntarily finds greatness where there is none, or by tinkering around enough to give the impression of a complex system, albeit just using a simple schematic. I want to go with the true multiple complex stages theory, though.
It feels like your average "Fliptop" inspired pedal is a two dimensional drawing of the real thing, while the Fifteen is a three dimensional object that your ears could actually touch, if they had hands.
Since this is the Dirt Jounal and not the Preamp Jounal, let's focus on the dirt for a second.
Diming the Drive on the pedal instantly yields a sound that is not unlike diming the gain on a mixing desk. You need special ears and a very special taste to like that. In conjunction with the cab sim (or filters, should you go the 1/4" way out), you can tame a lot of the nasty sizzle, but it still feels like poking a badger in the one sore spot on its belly. There's squirming, and sharp artifacts flying around and you want to evacuate yourself from the situation as fast as possible. When you dial back on the Drive knob to get into more credible settings, you reach the regions that are packed with fun stuff. If you set the Drive to be on the edge of breakup, there is considerable push back from the Fifteen, and it feels great under the fingertips. You can make the attack of a note growl just a little, clearing up quickly into a clean, luxurious decay. It's often said that you can't make a James tone stack sound bad. As you can see above, the center frequency for the tone stack is sitting around 400Hz, and the bass knob's range is less than 20dB from fully CCW to fully CW. The EQ is located pre-drive, so when you're going for edge of breakup or a mild drive sound, the EQ shapes the nature of the drive, which works very well.
Between the filters, the cab sim, and the post drive EQ, you get quite a few options to shape your sound even more. I know the filters and the post Drive two band are meant to match your backline rig to the DI sound, but thinking out of the box, you can do more with that stuff.
Secondly, and this is much harder to put in words, the depth of the thing. I've played a few pedals that hinted towards being B-15 inspired, or B-15 recreations. However, there's a bit more to the iconic little fliptop amp than a tube stage in the preamp and a James (passive Baxandall) EQ. I instantly get the feeling that there are multiple stages my signal passes, and each of them does a little something. This might be true, or it might be clever deception - either by Origin consistently pumping out great pedals for so long that my ear involuntarily finds greatness where there is none, or by tinkering around enough to give the impression of a complex system, albeit just using a simple schematic. I want to go with the true multiple complex stages theory, though.
It feels like your average "Fliptop" inspired pedal is a two dimensional drawing of the real thing, while the Fifteen is a three dimensional object that your ears could actually touch, if they had hands.
Since this is the Dirt Jounal and not the Preamp Jounal, let's focus on the dirt for a second.
Diming the Drive on the pedal instantly yields a sound that is not unlike diming the gain on a mixing desk. You need special ears and a very special taste to like that. In conjunction with the cab sim (or filters, should you go the 1/4" way out), you can tame a lot of the nasty sizzle, but it still feels like poking a badger in the one sore spot on its belly. There's squirming, and sharp artifacts flying around and you want to evacuate yourself from the situation as fast as possible. When you dial back on the Drive knob to get into more credible settings, you reach the regions that are packed with fun stuff. If you set the Drive to be on the edge of breakup, there is considerable push back from the Fifteen, and it feels great under the fingertips. You can make the attack of a note growl just a little, clearing up quickly into a clean, luxurious decay. It's often said that you can't make a James tone stack sound bad. As you can see above, the center frequency for the tone stack is sitting around 400Hz, and the bass knob's range is less than 20dB from fully CCW to fully CW. The EQ is located pre-drive, so when you're going for edge of breakup or a mild drive sound, the EQ shapes the nature of the drive, which works very well.
Between the filters, the cab sim, and the post drive EQ, you get quite a few options to shape your sound even more. I know the filters and the post Drive two band are meant to match your backline rig to the DI sound, but thinking out of the box, you can do more with that stuff.
I was an early adapter of Sushi Box effects. I’ve been through several iterations of the UA. I agree that some of the early ones were noisy, but it seems to me that those problems have been solved. By the way, my essential light to mid OD is the Sushi box elementary, which is based on the HiWatt DR103 preamp. It’s my favorite bright OD.
This type of description is exactly why I love this thread. It's not round, thick, or hairy, it's an angry badger.
This exactly my feeling (pun intended?) as well and made me sell my other B15 "emulations"
