It used to be kind of funny, another bash the sound guy post. I am starting to get tired of the whining and shifting of blame. The sound guy can't make any band sound much better than they are to begin with, and the soundguy may not be the only reason why a gig sucked.
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My first run-in with a really bad soundman
- Thread starter bassman1185
- Start date
OK, let me clarify a few things...
It's not that the soundman didn't want our guitarist to turn up "as loud as he wanted." It's that he didn't want him to turn up AT ALL. He was on 1/2 of 1. Even without the drums going, I could barely hear him from the other side of the stage. Tube amps have to be turned up a little ways to get any sort of attack and presence, otherwise they sound spongey and terrible. That is what was happening. Granted, a JCM800 is more amp than was really necessary for the situation, but there was no reason to make him turn it down THAT far.
I know that there is a difference between front of house sound and stage sound. I also know that if your amp sounds terrible before you mic it, then it will sound terrible when you DO mic it. I am an A/V tech by trade, and I know how these things work.
I also know that it IS possible to carry a small to medium sized room without PA support for the amps. I've done it several times, and as long as everyone realizes that they can't just turn up as loud as they want, it can sound pretty good.
The link in my sig is my old band, not the new one. The new band is poppier and not nearly as heavy.
It wasn't just our band that sounded bad with the sound guy. We were there when the headliner (The Wedding) was soundchecking, and he made them sound terrible too. Also, it wasn't just me that was frustrated with how the situation was going. EVERYONE in the room during the soundcheck time was commenting on how bad it was sounding, including people that weren't even IN bands, and the promoter.
I am also not shifting the blame for anything. As I said, once we were able to get the kinks worked out, the show went really well and the kids that were there dug it. My point was that it was frustrating working with someone who seemed to have VERY little knowledge of how to effectively run sound. I've dealt with some less than stellar soundguys before, but nobody as bad as this.
It's not that the soundman didn't want our guitarist to turn up "as loud as he wanted." It's that he didn't want him to turn up AT ALL. He was on 1/2 of 1. Even without the drums going, I could barely hear him from the other side of the stage. Tube amps have to be turned up a little ways to get any sort of attack and presence, otherwise they sound spongey and terrible. That is what was happening. Granted, a JCM800 is more amp than was really necessary for the situation, but there was no reason to make him turn it down THAT far.
I know that there is a difference between front of house sound and stage sound. I also know that if your amp sounds terrible before you mic it, then it will sound terrible when you DO mic it. I am an A/V tech by trade, and I know how these things work.
I also know that it IS possible to carry a small to medium sized room without PA support for the amps. I've done it several times, and as long as everyone realizes that they can't just turn up as loud as they want, it can sound pretty good.
The link in my sig is my old band, not the new one. The new band is poppier and not nearly as heavy.
It wasn't just our band that sounded bad with the sound guy. We were there when the headliner (The Wedding) was soundchecking, and he made them sound terrible too. Also, it wasn't just me that was frustrated with how the situation was going. EVERYONE in the room during the soundcheck time was commenting on how bad it was sounding, including people that weren't even IN bands, and the promoter.
I am also not shifting the blame for anything. As I said, once we were able to get the kinks worked out, the show went really well and the kids that were there dug it. My point was that it was frustrating working with someone who seemed to have VERY little knowledge of how to effectively run sound. I've dealt with some less than stellar soundguys before, but nobody as bad as this.
I know ya'll are just getting underway, but you should hear the guitar from your monitor cab, not the guitarists amp.
Once again, let me clarify...
The band is new, and some members are not very experienced. Myself and one guitarist ARE somewhat experienced, though. We gigged hard together for about two years in our other band.
I was not talking about not being able to hear the guitarist while the band was playing. I was talking about barely being able to hear it on a quiet stage, standing 6 feet away from it.
The band is new, and some members are not very experienced. Myself and one guitarist ARE somewhat experienced, though. We gigged hard together for about two years in our other band.
I was not talking about not being able to hear the guitarist while the band was playing. I was talking about barely being able to hear it on a quiet stage, standing 6 feet away from it.
Good grief, guys, this was a rock 'n' roll show for a bunch of teenagers, that DID GO REALLY WELL after we got some kinks worked out. This was not some smooth jazz trio playing for a wine tasting. The gig did NOT suck, the final sound was GOOD, but we had to argue our point with an unexperienced kid (I'm guessing he was 17 or 18) that wasn't aware of how amps work.
I agree with you, Steve, that a sound man can't make a band sound BETTER than they are, but he can sure as heck make them sound WORSE than they are, agree?
I agree with you, Steve, that a sound man can't make a band sound BETTER than they are, but he can sure as heck make them sound WORSE than they are, agree?
Well maybe the soundman didn't know what he was doing if he was that young. But maybe your band doesn't either. Only two of you have any experience playing out and 2 years isn't that long. Unless you are playing huge rooms or outdoors the 100 watt head is overkill.
Son, always make him your friend. When I was a young pup the first thing I learned was buy the sound guy a drink or drop him a $20.00. You'd be surprised as to how good he will make you sound when you have his attention. Just my $0.02. Make him feel like part of the band.
Also, what you sound on stage is never the same as to what you sound in front. Trusting the soung man is key. I've played The House of Bluse, The Vic, The Aragon (Chicago) to name a few small places and I never pay attention to what comes out of the amp. I just plug in and when he says play something I give him my signal and BOOM, Magic.
Another option, do it yourself. I invested in PA gear in my career as a musician just to make sure when we do small gig's this wouldn't happen to me. Again my $0.02
Also, what you sound on stage is never the same as to what you sound in front. Trusting the soung man is key. I've played The House of Bluse, The Vic, The Aragon (Chicago) to name a few small places and I never pay attention to what comes out of the amp. I just plug in and when he says play something I give him my signal and BOOM, Magic.
Another option, do it yourself. I invested in PA gear in my career as a musician just to make sure when we do small gig's this wouldn't happen to me. Again my $0.02
Don't worry bassman, I actually read your posts, processed the information and understood what you were saying. Key points for those who can't keep up.
- "Sound guy" was an inexperienced teenager, not a professional.
- Guitar amp with Volume @ 0.5 hardly produces any sound, let alone anything worth being miced.
- In complete silence, you should be able to hear your guitarist.
-Two years playing out may not be much to most people on these boards, but when you've had good experiences, you have at least a vague idea of what your volume levels should be.
- "Sound guy" was an inexperienced teenager, not a professional.
- Guitar amp with Volume @ 0.5 hardly produces any sound, let alone anything worth being miced.
- In complete silence, you should be able to hear your guitarist.
-Two years playing out may not be much to most people on these boards, but when you've had good experiences, you have at least a vague idea of what your volume levels should be.
Sounded like a learning experience to me. It's moments like this that mature us as musicians. As musicians we have to learn to play at great acoustical venues and in wood ceiling, concrete floor dance halls. You have to play, just play. Despite all the distractions and hardships you gotta do the gig. An experience with a bad sound man will make you appreciate a good one.
RE: Don't worry bassman, I actually read your posts, processed the information and understood what you were saying. Key points for those who can't keep up.
Thanks at my age I don't have much time to hear stories of how the bad man made my bass sound. If I had the time I'd post a pick of a crying little bitch.
Maybe next time post the entire story and also stop playing with kids, MJ.
Thanks at my age I don't have much time to hear stories of how the bad man made my bass sound. If I had the time I'd post a pick of a crying little bitch.
Maybe next time post the entire story and also stop playing with kids, MJ.
My personal opinion is that if you don't bring your own soundman, you have no right to complain when you are given a monkey instead.
If the gig is small and not worth bringing your own soundman, then its not worth complaining about and you should keep your mouth shut and roll with it.
I'm not a soundman, never have been and never want to be. But I do get very tired of seeing bands throw fits and create tension at gigs instead of making music. \
If sound matters, bring a damn soundman. Otherwise, YOU are the one that doesn't care, so don't try to make up for it by yelling at the monkey. When you argue with the monkey you aren't making a situation better, you are only making yourself feel better.
If the gig is small and not worth bringing your own soundman, then its not worth complaining about and you should keep your mouth shut and roll with it.
I'm not a soundman, never have been and never want to be. But I do get very tired of seeing bands throw fits and create tension at gigs instead of making music. \
If sound matters, bring a damn soundman. Otherwise, YOU are the one that doesn't care, so don't try to make up for it by yelling at the monkey. When you argue with the monkey you aren't making a situation better, you are only making yourself feel better.
Calm down Fito, I wasn't taking a stab at you. Just the people who kept hounding him after he explained his situation. In fact I agree completely with everything you wrote in your post before mine. It's just that if people are going to respond to something, at least read everything the OP had to say in the thread, not just the first post, because we all forget a detail here and there. Yes the original post isn't very descriptive, but that's no reason to jump on him. The bring your own sound guy is a good idea, but I don't know of many places you could go where the house sound guy is going to willingly give up his spot to someone he doesn't know, who might not be familiar with the room and/or equipment so you can get your sound.
Wow, good job being a dick dude. Is it really that big of a deal that someone posted a story about a bad time experience with soundman on a forum about Bass Humor and Gig Stories? I'd think someone 'of your age' might be a little more mature.
That's true. But he can also make it sound MUCH worse than they are to begin with.
Been there, heard that. More times than I care to remember. The reality is that sound guys are like musicians - some are incredible, many are proficient, and some just plain suck.
It's entirely possible that if everyone at the venue was complaining during sound check (as the OP has stated) that the sound guy in question did a crappy job.
It's a shame that a bass player can't vent about a bad experience here on Talkbass.
I wonder, does anyone know of a forum where a bass player could go to get a little support from his brethren after such an incident?
I hear your pain bassman, and I'm glad it all worked out in the end.
I wonder, does anyone know of a forum where a bass player could go to get a little support from his brethren after such an incident?
I hear your pain bassman, and I'm glad it all worked out in the end.
I am a sound guy and this post is right on the money. 99.99% of bands don't have a clue about live sound reinforcement. Just because you don't hear it on stage doesn't mean they don't hear it out front.
I don't think anyone is bashing soundmen in general, any more than one would bash doctors in general. But are there occasionally bad doctors who screw up and malpractice? Sadly, yes. Are there also bad soundmen out there that do a lousy job? Resounding yes! I've been on both sides of the fence as a professional bassist and as the ocassional live soundman and studio engineer, so I have very good perspective on this issue. I've felt the pain of the OP and those who echo his sentiments. A good soundman can bring out the best in a band, even flatter it. But a bad soundman can downright wreck the sound of the band, whether that means with a bad mix or by creating any situation where musicians cannot express themselves freely, completely, or easily. The performing musician need not necessarily have to comprehend every aspect of sound reinforcement for this to happen. We can often recognize a bad teacher without actually being one or being better at it. The same thing goes for doctors, lawyers, landlords, chefs, athletes, painters, parents, elected officials, and even soundmen.
I believe anyone has a right to express his frustration over anyone in any line of work that doesn't do a good job, including soundmen, especially if it impacts us negatively when it shouldn't or doesn't have to be that way.
I believe anyone has a right to express his frustration over anyone in any line of work that doesn't do a good job, including soundmen, especially if it impacts us negatively when it shouldn't or doesn't have to be that way.
