If I paid $500 I would be unhappy. That tummy cut, upper and lower bout cuts, and superglue are completely unacceptable at any price point IMO.
The buffing and scratches I could deal with, that would be "some show wear" to me.
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My HORRIBLE Alleva-Coppolo experience...
- Thread starter Addison
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If I paid $500 I would be unhappy. That tummy cut, upper and lower bout cuts, and superglue are completely unacceptable at any price point IMO.
The buffing and scratches I could deal with, that would be "some show wear" to me.
Really ? Charging 5k for a bass that looks like that is insane, arrogant and goes against everything I've read and seen about AC. Jimmy is going to lose alot more than the 5k he could've simply given back.
I'm dumbfounded that the customer has not yet been reached out to by AC. I agree that it doesn't need to be done in this thread, but wow.
Actually I started on clarinet long ago, also played bass clarinet in high school and wished I'd bought one when it was offered to me as they were cheap then. I really loved playing bass clarinet. I enjoy listening to the sax players around here talk about instruments they have or want, and much what I've heard discussed involves vintage instruments... I don't know the model but I have a friend who just dropped 9K for a vintage tenor, and he loves it. I don't mind sax talk at all... it helps me relate better to other musicians that play an instrument I don't if I learn about what's important to them.
OP....I feel your pain. I was duped by a speaker manufacturer who "did me solid" and discounted a speaker cab for a quick sale. His return policy was never mentioned and hidden on his web page. Getting my money back was like trying steal a dollar from a bum. Granted, if I lost...I would have only been out $600-$700 bucks....not $5K!!! I got duped in a used Pavel sale once. I paid $2500 for the bass.....it needed a fret job, truss rod wouldnt turn right, and fit/finish was not what I expected from a bas that cost $4K new!!
I would invest in legal recourse, or at least find a good lawyer and threaten recourse with a scare tactic letter. Spread the word about this too. The more people know about this, the more it hurts the bottom line of the seller....which makes you more inclined to get your $$ back. Squeaky wheels get grease! Forget what people say, if you gotta fight dirty to get your $$ back, fight dirty. I know I would!!
Only other option is to cut your losses and sell this bass. The only problem is it's going to take some $$ to get that sucker back into sellable condition. I would feel horrible selling that bass to anyone at 1/2 of what you paid for it given the condition its in. Carl Pedigo (of Lakland fame) does awesome work at a VERY VERY affordable rate. He's done some work for me on several basses at what I could only assume to be pennies on the dollar. Seriously, call Carl. You can find him at chicagobassdr.com.
The crappy part is you sold some nice basses to get this one....thats the part the stings the most. Lesson learned I guess. I wish you luck bass brother.
I would invest in legal recourse, or at least find a good lawyer and threaten recourse with a scare tactic letter. Spread the word about this too. The more people know about this, the more it hurts the bottom line of the seller....which makes you more inclined to get your $$ back. Squeaky wheels get grease! Forget what people say, if you gotta fight dirty to get your $$ back, fight dirty. I know I would!!
Only other option is to cut your losses and sell this bass. The only problem is it's going to take some $$ to get that sucker back into sellable condition. I would feel horrible selling that bass to anyone at 1/2 of what you paid for it given the condition its in. Carl Pedigo (of Lakland fame) does awesome work at a VERY VERY affordable rate. He's done some work for me on several basses at what I could only assume to be pennies on the dollar. Seriously, call Carl. You can find him at chicagobassdr.com.
The crappy part is you sold some nice basses to get this one....thats the part the stings the most. Lesson learned I guess. I wish you luck bass brother.
Hopkins
Commercial User
Agreed. This thread won't shut down his business, but it's a certainty that many potential buyers researching AC will find this thread and decide against buying from him. This situation will cost him much more than the $5grand he took from the OP.
I think misrepresentation is an understandable complaint and one that should be pursued. I want Addison to end up happy because the experience he is going through has too be awful.
I have also heard quality control has not been the same for ac since Jimmy left New York. I just hate the "questioning of Jimmy's mental health" or other silly things that have been posted in this thread. You have a legitimate issue but I just think it's best resolved between you and Jimmy and he probably doesn't work on weekends (which is when this went public).
I have also heard quality control has not been the same for ac since Jimmy left New York. I just hate the "questioning of Jimmy's mental health" or other silly things that have been posted in this thread. You have a legitimate issue but I just think it's best resolved between you and Jimmy and he probably doesn't work on weekends (which is when this went public).
This is why I am leery of one man shops.
I have bought multiple basses from Ken Smith and expect perfection. That's the business he is in, frankly, and he delivers. Same with Mike Lull. This are the only two I have any real experience with.
Chances are good, if this is a one man shop, your money is long gone. It paid for overhead, rent, food for the builder etc. Good luck man... this may be a long process.
I have bought multiple basses from Ken Smith and expect perfection. That's the business he is in, frankly, and he delivers. Same with Mike Lull. This are the only two I have any real experience with.
Chances are good, if this is a one man shop, your money is long gone. It paid for overhead, rent, food for the builder etc. Good luck man... this may be a long process.
My viewpoint:
The fit and finish of this bass is beyond unacceptable. This is not player wear. This is quality far below basses you can buy on CL for $100.
The OP seems heartbroken. Genuinely. Understandably. He also has behaved with substantial class and maturity.
In my humble opinion, TB should not lock this thread for a variety of reasons. First, it contains accurate and relevant information. Second, it will soon contain information that will be even more relevant (about the outcome). And third, I have to say, if I were the builder, I would want the thread to stay open so that we may hear the outcome, and the builders input.
From my perspective, given the OPs financial situation and the investment (selling two nice basses) and the negative experience thus far, this bass needs to be returned to the builder for a refund. Perhaps the builder could at some point ship the OP a bass, for his inspection and, if acceptable, purchase. In the future. That is probably how I would handle it if I were the builder. And yet, there is still something missing:
There HAS to be some explanation how a bass in this condition was shipped by a builder who charges $5K+ for basses. If I were the builder, in addition to the refund, I would want to give an explanation. There just HAS to be an explanation. If I were the builder, I would want TB to hear me say that yes, I agree ..this bass is unacceptable. Perhaps someone else worked on this bass and perhaps the builder did not inspect it and was not fully aware of the problems. Whatever. If there is not an explanation, then the builder needs to sell basses for three figures. Two or three. Not four.
The fit and finish of this bass is beyond unacceptable. This is not player wear. This is quality far below basses you can buy on CL for $100.
The OP seems heartbroken. Genuinely. Understandably. He also has behaved with substantial class and maturity.
In my humble opinion, TB should not lock this thread for a variety of reasons. First, it contains accurate and relevant information. Second, it will soon contain information that will be even more relevant (about the outcome). And third, I have to say, if I were the builder, I would want the thread to stay open so that we may hear the outcome, and the builders input.
From my perspective, given the OPs financial situation and the investment (selling two nice basses) and the negative experience thus far, this bass needs to be returned to the builder for a refund. Perhaps the builder could at some point ship the OP a bass, for his inspection and, if acceptable, purchase. In the future. That is probably how I would handle it if I were the builder. And yet, there is still something missing:
There HAS to be some explanation how a bass in this condition was shipped by a builder who charges $5K+ for basses. If I were the builder, in addition to the refund, I would want to give an explanation. There just HAS to be an explanation. If I were the builder, I would want TB to hear me say that yes, I agree ..this bass is unacceptable. Perhaps someone else worked on this bass and perhaps the builder did not inspect it and was not fully aware of the problems. Whatever. If there is not an explanation, then the builder needs to sell basses for three figures. Two or three. Not four.
with a horrible tummy cut, overbuffed in spots through the finish to the wood, chips on the side of the neck and headstock. You quote ALL the positives of the bass (which are few) and conveniently leave out the negatives that don't support your position....
Maybe you could buy this fine piece of craftsmanship from the OP....
As for wanting to bash expensive basses.....not my intent....I own a few and am pleased, the point is the OP spent 5K of his hard earned money, and he deserves better than what he is getting
Hopkins
Commercial User
Its called sap wood, and I happen to think it is beautiful and would prefer it over a boring piece of rosewood without it.
The bass is unacceptable, but not because of the woods its made from.
Agreed. His basses are waaaay outta my price range new. Used....still steep, but doable if I were jonsing enough for one. This thread took away any inclination to ever buy an AC bass, new or used. I dont like being screwed over, nor do I wanna do business with a company who screws people over.
4 pages were added as I was reading the thread, and I was passing some posts too.
I seriously think this is the fastest growing thread ever that I've seen from the day I stepped on the TB board.
To all the things mentioned above I can only add this.
All the hell broke out because this is an Alleva-Coppola bass, but really, we've read about bad quality and worse client relations in the past. Ric is the first one to come to my mind, not trying to equilibre the two in any case. Just saying, we're hot after a boutique bass gone wrong.
What's more implied than said is, we're mad because we don't see the treat of being a boutique bass buyer/owner that we have pictured in our heads. We want to be respected, for to give out way-larger-than-usual money on items that don't bother 99% of this planet's population is respectful (again, in our minds). One might even want to google up what the handicap theory (evolutional) is about.
Now, think about this. I believe this bass indeed has problems, but they can be cured. They can be cured on a sub- $500 bass as well. But come to think about it - if these can be cured on a sub-$500 bass and then leave some of it's price tag, then it can absolutely be done below $500 in costs, right? Then I just won't take it that performing the same work on a $5000 bass is 10 times more expensive. No way.
What's below the line? We're being fooled by the industry, as we take too many suppositions literally (including this one). So, when a guy chimes in that "he wouldn't pay more than $XXX for a bass" I, on the one hand, doubt it in many cases (it isn't a BASS or a BIKE you're paying for, it's your imaginary respectfulness. It could be just that a bass or a bike don't make you feel that way, but some other items will, that's how consumer's-sweat-driven economy works). On the other hand, I do stand up for the assumption that many basses don't equal to the level of goods and labor put into them.
That said, I am expecting for my 6th Lakland to arrive, and at one instance I owned 3. But recently I went down the road of reducing the unnecessary expense, thus I went from US LAklands back to MIJ ones. Made in ESP shops in Japan, they are "good enough". And I considered MIK or MII Laklands too, only got a "good enogh" deal. And that, as I am fully aware, is also a nice way to deceive myself, because being an East-European underpaid working and pastime-sofa-playing bassist just doesn't justify paying that much for a piece of wacky furniture that doesn't perform what it is intended to do in the first place - serve a workingman's instrument to achieve specific goals. Oh, wait-it does. It takes the money off a person who honestly earns it and gives it to the thirsty amateur-aimed musical instrument industry.
I admit some food for my thought was fed by the late Ed Roman (you might find some of the respected bass-making brands in this section:
http://edroman.com/rants.htm ), but the rest was just contemplation.
All my empathy to the OP.
P.S. 2 more pages as I was writing this
I seriously think this is the fastest growing thread ever that I've seen from the day I stepped on the TB board.
To all the things mentioned above I can only add this.
All the hell broke out because this is an Alleva-Coppola bass, but really, we've read about bad quality and worse client relations in the past. Ric is the first one to come to my mind, not trying to equilibre the two in any case. Just saying, we're hot after a boutique bass gone wrong.
What's more implied than said is, we're mad because we don't see the treat of being a boutique bass buyer/owner that we have pictured in our heads. We want to be respected, for to give out way-larger-than-usual money on items that don't bother 99% of this planet's population is respectful (again, in our minds). One might even want to google up what the handicap theory (evolutional) is about.
Now, think about this. I believe this bass indeed has problems, but they can be cured. They can be cured on a sub- $500 bass as well. But come to think about it - if these can be cured on a sub-$500 bass and then leave some of it's price tag, then it can absolutely be done below $500 in costs, right? Then I just won't take it that performing the same work on a $5000 bass is 10 times more expensive. No way.
What's below the line? We're being fooled by the industry, as we take too many suppositions literally (including this one). So, when a guy chimes in that "he wouldn't pay more than $XXX for a bass" I, on the one hand, doubt it in many cases (it isn't a BASS or a BIKE you're paying for, it's your imaginary respectfulness. It could be just that a bass or a bike don't make you feel that way, but some other items will, that's how consumer's-sweat-driven economy works). On the other hand, I do stand up for the assumption that many basses don't equal to the level of goods and labor put into them.
That said, I am expecting for my 6th Lakland to arrive, and at one instance I owned 3. But recently I went down the road of reducing the unnecessary expense, thus I went from US LAklands back to MIJ ones. Made in ESP shops in Japan, they are "good enough". And I considered MIK or MII Laklands too, only got a "good enogh" deal. And that, as I am fully aware, is also a nice way to deceive myself, because being an East-European underpaid working and pastime-sofa-playing bassist just doesn't justify paying that much for a piece of wacky furniture that doesn't perform what it is intended to do in the first place - serve a workingman's instrument to achieve specific goals. Oh, wait-it does. It takes the money off a person who honestly earns it and gives it to the thirsty amateur-aimed musical instrument industry.
I admit some food for my thought was fed by the late Ed Roman (you might find some of the respected bass-making brands in this section:
http://edroman.com/rants.htm ), but the rest was just contemplation.
All my empathy to the OP.
P.S. 2 more pages as I was writing this
In AC's "defense" he probably feels that this is way overblown. He may also be a non-confrontational type , if thats the case, he will wait till this blows over.
It's also "possible" he just doesn't have the money. How much does all the parts, wood, shop upkeep cost? And rent or mortgage of he owns the property he works out of. Some luthiers I have spoken with..well..don't do this for the money. You end up making what....anywhere from 8 to..14 bucks an hour?
Back to OP have you pursued the legal / court system route yet?
It's also "possible" he just doesn't have the money. How much does all the parts, wood, shop upkeep cost? And rent or mortgage of he owns the property he works out of. Some luthiers I have spoken with..well..don't do this for the money. You end up making what....anywhere from 8 to..14 bucks an hour?
Back to OP have you pursued the legal / court system route yet?
In your opinion, do you think this is a QC issue, or is it linked to more my suspicion that he's trying to get too many out of the shop too fast if he's a one man operation? As I said, I know guys that work on stuff and if he's cranking out 8 basses a week on average, plus other stuff, that's insane output for one person.
I also don't think it should be the buyers responsibility to figure out what is wrong with a "new" bass they are buying by asking for pictures of every little area on the bass. If you're selling a janked up bass and the customer knows all the issues, but still wants it, that's one thing, but it's quite another to take a long distance photo and say it's all "normal wear." On and by the way, no refunds.
I just can't get over this situation...REALLY looking forward to hearing how this all works out.
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