• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

My ideas always seem to be bad ideas unless

Metalbasspro

Metalbasspro

Feb 9, 2009
1,848
922
WA state
#1
My ideas always seem to be bad ideas unless the idea is seen somewhere else.

Band I am in is doing a CD release gig soon. We are playing with two other bands and I tried to sell them on taking the middle spot. They listened to my reasoning and agreed with it but felt that the last spot is the headliner spot and as such we should play last even if it means a 20% reduction in audience as the hour grows late. I'm the new guy so I accepted that I would just be right once again and let it go.

Fast forward three weeks and the BL says he was reading this article on local bands and it had ten points of sort of do's and don't. In the article is said what I was saying. Take the Prime spot not the last spot. The Second spot is the NEW last spot. So with that we all then agreed to play second and not last.

I decided not to reference my suggestion from weeks before. Anyone else get this kinda thing?
 
  • Like
Reactions: cchorney, Gearhead17, mark roberts and 9 others
#8
Metalbasspro said:
That's not the point. It's a re occurring thing. I'd like my ideas to be judged on their own merits not because of where they come from.
Click to expand...

I hear you, man.

I had the same discussion, and many other similar kinds of discussions, with one musician I used to play with. My words seemed to always fall on deaf ears unless he heard the same idea from someone else or until he came up with the same idea "on his own."

I could never figure out if the guy just needed more evidence for an idea or if his ego wouldn't allow him to not be completely in charge of a project he was in.

I remember proposing an idea to him many years ago about how our, at the time, new band should market itself, write songs, handle social media, and operate as a group looking to "make it." He hated the idea at the time, but his current group just released their second album under the same skeleton I gave him way back then. They're touring nationally now, building an impressively sized fan base, and are beginning to get on some of the good stages of the big name festivals.

I'm happy for him and harbor no ill will, but I do think it's about as ironic as it gets.

Anyways, it's up to you as to whether or not you're willing to put up with that sort of thing. I personally don't stick around long if I get that impression from a group or a person I'm playing with. You can try talking to them about it, but, IME, people like that tend to make excuses as to why your ideas haven't been heard.
 
#9
Metalbasspro said:
That's not the point. It's a re occurring thing. I'd like my ideas to be judged on their own merits not because of where they come from.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I hear ya. Nobody ever takes my suggestions either. I once suggested that we come up with one word that means "re occuring". Nobody wanted anything to do with it. Then some guy named Webster puts out a book and, sure 'nuf, there it is..... "recurring". :D

@Metalbasspro are you married? If not, wait until then. You haven't had your ideas flatly turned down yet until you get married. I do tech work for a living. I use computers all day. I am somewhat trained on them. My wife has a laptop she won't let me work on. When it has a problem, she calls her dad. Her dad has NEVER EVER owned a computer a day in his life. o_O

We are in the process of building a really cool hangout in our back yard. I have had to pick my battles on that thing. I want it to be super casual, have a full kitchen, a big screen with sliding doors facing the pool so I can float while watching the Red Sox play, and PA speakers flown for the stereo so it can be a jam room too. I will get most of that, but none of the other stuff I wanted. :D

(By the way, those about her only hangups. I love that hot redneck woman.....and, no, she will not read this.)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Stumbo, 2cooltoolz, Novarocker and 7 others
#11
two fingers said:
Yeah, I hear ya. Nobody ever takes my suggestions either. I once suggested that we come up with one word that means "re occuring". Nobody wanted anything to do with it. Then some guy named Webster puts out a book and, sure 'nuf, there it is..... "recurring". :D

@Metalbasspro are you married? If not, wait until then. You haven't had your ideas flatly turned down yet until you get married. I do tech work for a living. I use computers all day. I am somewhat trained on them. My wife has a laptop she won't let me work on. When it has a problem, she calls her dad. Her dad has NEVER EVER owned a computer a day in his life. o_O

We are in the process of building a really cool hangout in our back yard. I have had to pick my battles on that thing. I want it to be super casual, have a full kitchen, a big screen with sliding doors facing the pol so I can float while watching the Red Sox play, and PA speakers flown for the stereo so it can be a jam room too. I will get most of that, but none of the other stuff I wanted. :D

(By the way, those about her only hangups. I love that hot redneck woman.....and, no, she will not read this.)
Click to expand...

LOL! My wife has a never married, childless 40 year old friend that she asks for parenting advice. She started seeing the folly in it after I pointed it out a few times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pwhalen, KickingBass and two fingers
#12
After two and a half years, I'm still the new guy. For the first six months or so, I had nothing to say about anything except "yeah, OK!" For the next six months, I'd suggest a song and get vetoed every time. Then I brought in something everybody liked. And in the last four months, most of the additions to the set list were mine. Gradualism!
 
  • Like
Reactions: pudgychef, Spectrum, Stumbo and 2 others
#15
guy n. cognito said:
LOL! My wife has a never married, childless 40 year old friend that she asks for parenting advice. She started seeing the folly in it after I pointed it out a few times.
Click to expand...

Have you ever had any luck suggesting the opposite of what you really think so she'll go with what you wanted all along? It only works about half the time for me so it's not a technique I can depend on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jmattbassplaya
#16
Hey I like this thread, I don't feel so alone. I think it's a combo of being new and being the bassist especially if it's a metal band. My non music related ideas were often implemented and respected. My musical ideas are rarely if ever taken. I typically just figured that my ideas were simply not that good and maybe that was the case sometimes. Now that I'm starting to focus on making some music on the side by myself, I'm realizing that my ideas don't always stink. Different people have different tastes. About your situation, you can learn to just shake it off or you can keep being right and then bring it up to them. I probably would've thrown out a little "I told you so"...
 
#17
two fingers said:
Have you ever had any luck suggesting the opposite of what you really think so she'll go with what you wanted all along? It only works about half the time for me so it's not a technique I can depend on.
Click to expand...

Nah. So long as it's not critical, I just let the bad advice play out. Failure is a great teacher.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Novarocker, pcake, petrus61 and 5 others
#18
Metalbasspro said:
That's not the point. It's a re occurring thing. I'd like my ideas to be judged on their own merits not because of where they come from.
Click to expand...

This is a common problem when working with headstrong people. When I run into situations like this, I give the situation time and quietly tally up the number of ideas that actually get accepted. If they repeatedly shoot down my ideas, I normally withdraw from the situation. And I start a new situation where I have more control over the decisions than in the prior situation.

This is a normal reaction. In my days of studying group dynamics, once principle we learned with this -- lack of inclusion leads to withdrawal from the group. A good BL and group will also be tallying up the ratio of accepted ideas to total ideas. If someone seems to never get their decisions accepted, then a good group will consider this and start accepting ideas for the sake of the group dynamic.

I've even had groups where I can't even get a word in "edgewise" in conversation. I say something and everyone ignores it. Or the interaction is between two or three people and they don't even acknowledge me. When this starts happening, I can't help but feel I lack status or importance in the group. And as someone who DOES have a significant amount of expertise and knowledge in certain areas, and who is definitely a leader, these situations lead to my withdrawal from the group.

Now, there are ways of dealing with this -- at least giving the naysayers a chance. One thing I have done, is this -- blunt statements.

"Do you guys realize that I made 10 suggestions in the last two rehearsals, and you rejected every single one of them???. I'm not sure where that leaves, us, but I definitely feel that I don't have a voice in this group".

"You remember that I suggested we perform in the middle of the CD release party? And that my idea was rejected until you read it in a magazine article? I find this is a pattern in this group, and I'm NOT SURE WHERE IT LEAVES US". [that ambiguous statement in bold can go a long way].

If they are lacking awareness, they will likely object to your numbers, in which case you pull out your suggestions and their reactions. Stick to the facts.

If they continue to stay in denial, or give reasons why your concern is unjustified (like bringing out suggestions they did take, three decades ago, or on minor issues) consider if they are right or if they pulled out one suggestion they took out of 30 you gave, and respond accordingly.

If there is no resolution to the problem after bringing this up a couple times, I'd consider moving on or just accepting you're a minor sideman in the whole project.

What was hard for me was this -- I booked all the gigs, did the website, named the band, provided the rehearsal space, etcetera, yet the personalities in one group were so overbearing they still left me without a voice. I quit eventually.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Marikk, Spectrum, pcake and 2 others
#20
Try not to let others dismissal of your ideas affect your self esteem. It is an unfortunate character flaw that I believe is ego driven, which is seldom if ever a positive trait. Let each of your correct ideas be judged on their merit, that should feed your confidence. you can only lead the horse to water.......
Become concerned only when your ideas falter, you don't seem to suffer from that. Now there is a real cross to bear. I have some experience with that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: outoftune and FugaziBomb

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back